sunnysal Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 MR. 2n3055, You are RIGHT! I am sure most high-end tube amp designers are gullible, and do not know what they are doing... Do I need to list the guys using those caps in their PS? It is a who's who of great tube amps...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Geezz ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 ---------------- On 9/12/2004 9:13:05 PM 2N3055 wrote: I also agree that the Black Gate and other "high end" electrolytic capacitors are a total waste of money. Regardless of their cost, they are still electrolytic capacitors, and are constructed in the same basic manner as any other electrolytic capacitor. ---------------- Dear version #1836 of Ryan, You must realize that most BG are bought by DIYers and hobbyists who remember that there is a component called fun in audio, which too often top notch professionals in the audio world like yourself seem to have long forgotten. One thing never mentioned by the BG detractors is that the vast majority of their offering ain't 10x more expensive over traditional electrolytics of good quality but more like 2x or 3x. Hey $6 instead of $2 for a cathode bypass cap!!! Christ, that is going to hurt someone's wallet! Which idiot would lay that amount of money? It is a bit sad that most are looking at the WKZ serie (granted they are far from being cheap) while forgetting that it is only a serie of 5 or 6 caps compared the the hundred or so of other offerings. As a personal rant, the often used argument about "10 times more expensive but not 10 time better sounding" is not really convincing to bash something in my opinion. The law of diminushing return applies to most goods from cars to BBQ to wine bottles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 ---------------- On 9/12/2004 8:41:04 PM NOSValves wrote: Some people have no clue what there talking about and just dive in ! Craig ---------------- I Got my shoes on now,and still rockin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 ---------------- On 9/13/2004 6:33:27 PM mdeneen wrote: "The law of diminushing return applies to most goods from cars to BBQ to wine bottles." ==== Ohhh, how painfully true - at least for wine. mdeneen ---------------- In the end the question is am I willing to pay the extra amount for what I consider to be an improvement. Of course if one do not find any, the question doesn't ask itself. In my case, I'll gladly shell out the cash for some expensive bottles, say a Brunello del Montalcino some late vintage Amaronne or Rioja. Fifty time time better than a Two Buck Chuck? Well let settle for 35 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 the wine situation is even worse when you live in a third world nation...like moi...a six dollar bottle of trapiche from argentina (quite a good tabel wine BTW try a bottle jeff if you have a chance) is twelve dollars down here...and the wine I import every year from france, which would cost in NYC between ten and fifteen dollars per bottle costs me between twenty and thirty dollars per bottle. grrrrr....so a few bucks spent on BG or cerafine or jensen or whatever for my favorite hobby does not sting too much. BTW has anyone confirmed that the margins are so high on BG? or is that just conjecture? my guess is that the combination of low volume and low margins is what is killing off the cerafines and BGs of the world. why turn off a golden goose? mybe someone can enlighten me on that one...? regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 ---------------- On 9/13/2004 1:18:38 PM Painful Reality wrote: ---------------- On 9/12/2004 9:13:05 PM 2N3055 wrote: I also agree that the Black Gate and other "high end" electrolytic capacitors are a total waste of money. Regardless of their cost, they are still electrolytic capacitors, and are constructed in the same basic manner as any other electrolytic capacitor. ---------------- Dear version #1836 of Ryan, You must realize that most BG are bought by DIYers and hobbyists who remember that there is a component called fun in audio, which too often top notch professionals in the audio world like yourself seem to have long forgotten. One thing never mentioned by the BG detractors is that the vast majority of their offering ain't 10x more expensive over traditional electrolytics of good quality but more like 2x or 3x. Hey $6 instead of $2 for a cathode bypass cap!!! Christ, that is going to hurt someone's wallet! Which idiot would lay that amount of money? It is a bit sad that most are looking at the WKZ serie (granted they are far from being cheap) while forgetting that it is only a serie of 5 or 6 caps compared the the hundred or so of other offerings. As a personal rant, the often used argument about "10 times more expensive but not 10 time better sounding" is not really convincing to bash something in my opinion. The law of diminushing return applies to most goods from cars to BBQ to wine bottles. ---------------- Jeff, Your correct for small value cathode bypass caps and the like the BG are a reasonable option. But for main PS positions I think you will agree they will do very little if anything to the sound and would be very price prohibitive. In my own amps the cost for the PS caps alone would add a ridicules price increase to amps and do very little if anything at all to the sound. I have 6 large value cans in each amp ! Were talking near $500 per amp my cost to use BG for little or no gain. I would call this the law of total deminished returns ! My amps have no other lytics in them. My own Mapletree preamp uses BG in the bypass positions. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 ---------------- On 9/14/2004 9:22:18 AM sunnysal wrote: the wine situation is even worse when you live in a third world nation...like moi...a six dollar bottle of trapiche from argentina (quite a good tabel wine BTW try a bottle jeff if you have a chance) is twelve dollars down here...and the wine I import every year from france, which would cost in NYC between ten and fifteen dollars per bottle costs me between twenty and thirty dollars per bottle. grrrrr....so a few bucks spent on BG or cerafine or jensen or whatever for my favorite hobby does not sting too much. BTW has anyone confirmed that the margins are so high on BG? or is that just conjecture? my guess is that the combination of low volume and low margins is what is killing off the cerafines and BGs of the world. why turn off a golden goose? mybe someone can enlighten me on that one...? regards, tony ---------------- The low volume equation IMHO is what is causing there failed business models. They market through limited audio specialty channels to keep there prices high. In the end its killing them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the cost to produce the caps can't be that much more. I mean they would have to fill them with gold ! At least the ones I would use. I just did a check of the small value I commonly use in Scott rebuilds and there a better deal then the large values oh boy ! there only 8 to 9 times more expensive then the tried and true Sprague Atom which is at least twice as expensive as bargin electrolytes from Xicon and the like. There is just no way these caps can cost more then pennies more to make IMHO. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 ---------------- On 9/13/2004 1:26:33 PM radiob wrote: ---------------- On 9/12/2004 8:41:04 PM NOSValves wrote: Some people have no clue what there talking about and just dive in ! Craig ---------------- I Got my shoes on now,and still rockin.... ---------------- Awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Craig, not to steal the thread, but I have an old tube radio amplifier that works, but I would like to have it restored so it can be used in the radio cabinet which I refinished. Can you do this? Or do you know of anyone that can? I would like the chassis to be refinished as well, so it will probobly need to be stripped of the electonics, bead blasted an painted. carry on, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 I don't know any of these guys but a quick search pulled these up http://www.oldradiodoc.com/ http://www.everythingradio.com/ http://www.redwoodradio.com/ http://www.radiorecycler.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 we ask for pictures of the twins and get a picture of his foot. Poetic Justice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 Just thought I would let everyone know the amp arrived safe and sound and packed like a tank ! The thing wieghs in like one also ! Sound very good but I really have been to busy for serious listening yet. I can say it has a much better top to bottom balance in its operating range then any other SET amp have heard to date. I will report back more later. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Nice big oils work well in a PS, or a oil bypassed over a 'lytic if a large value is desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 give us a complete report a.s.a.p. I am fascinated by this amp design. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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