ricktate Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 How air tight should the bass bin section be? I made a test on the ones im redoing and i can feel air comming out the mouth of the horn. Can Trey or someone from Hope chime in here and help us,,,are there problem areas cause i cant seem to figure out where the air is getting through....thanks for any help...Rick..ps ,yes i did seal up the woofer slot...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 The back chamber, which is sealed with the hatch should be (must be) very air tight. The mouth of any horn is the big end. For the K-Horn in a corner it is the side grills. That is where the air is supposed to come out. But you must be talking about some other location. Maybe near the section which goes up against the corner? That is the tail board. As you might know, the air chamber all communicates to the interior of what I call the wedges at the top and bottom of the assembly. You can see them inside the large 6" x 40 inch slot just inside the tailboard. Maybe the leak is there? Please let us all know more about any issues. We really need more information. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Look at the 4.10.04 post of transparent KHorns in modifications and upgrades. That will give you some information which is not otherwise obvious. Take a close look at the all but rectangular piece at the bottom left. You'll see the corner at the 4 o'clock position is cut off. Naturally there are four such piece. This cut allows the use of the volume in the wedges as part of the back chamber. Of course what I call wedges are shaped like door stops. I have no reason to believe a leak out the wedges is your problem. But you never know. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 ---------------- On 9/11/2004 5:35:55 PM ricktate wrote: How air tight should the bass bin section be? I made a test on the ones im redoing and i can feel air comming out the mouth of the horn. Can Trey or someone from Hope chime in here and help us,,,are there problem areas cause i cant seem to figure out where the air is getting through....thanks for any help...Rick..ps ,yes i did seal up the woofer slot...lol ---------------- Rick, what exactly is your test? What are you calling the mouth? How are you moving air in or out in the first place -- or are you? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 11, 2004 Author Share Posted September 11, 2004 The air is going in the sealed chamber via a screw hole in the woofer acess door,,,,and i have the woofer slot sealed with some rubber and piece of plexiglass,,,,i can feel air comming from the exit by the tailboard more to the top on one side ,,i stick my hand up inside the horn and can feel air,,,while it is just a little air it still concerns me,,,,so there is a leak,,i have only done one so far,,,,,this might just be a normal thing???maybe the chamber is not that tight?? A little very little air is comming out the terminal block thats easy to fix....i wonder how Klipsch tests the airchamber in the factory? Andy seems to be out of town so i was hoping someone would know more,,,Thanks for your help...Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 12, 2004 Author Share Posted September 12, 2004 Here is update on the leak problem,,,i siliconed a few of the inside joints,,,,checked the screws on the motor board....still leaks, wierd,,,,next step go get some more silicone and seal every joint inside the back air chamber i guess. Thought about this last night alot,,,might try some incense inside the chamber then put the air pressure to it maybe i can see where the leak comes from,,,that would help alot huh,,lol Rick,,,any ideas >???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 12, 2004 Author Share Posted September 12, 2004 Ok i found the air leak. get this i guess the day they built this K-Horn they were low on glue or the worker had a bad day...lol...The whole motor board assembly that is fastened to the inside front of the main front board did not have any glue put on it.I could get a .006 feeler guage inbetween the assembly and the board,,,no glue at all!!!!!well i siliconed all the joints so this K-Horn is airtight now,,,lol,,,you other K-Horn owners may want to check yours to,,,Rick ps..one of these K-Horns had a replacment woofer in it,,,could be the leak caused the woofer to go out,,,letting it bottom out and bent the voice coil...makes sense huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Ok here we go again,,,i did a fast test on other K-Horn base bin,,,,it leaks to,,,i dont think the base bins are all that airtight at all and these were made in 1972 when the old guys still worked there huh. Well the other one is oretty airtight now im sure need to work on this one now.If you want to test yours some day heres how i did it.Take the woofer out ,seal up the slot with plywood and a rubber seal on it,,,then put the acess cover back on except for one of the screws that goes into the airtight chamber,,,,then apply compressed air to that screw hole.....if you got a leak you can hear it pretty good.The one i got sealed up finally has air comming back out screw hole when i take away the compressed air hose,,,so must be sealed better than it was. The other one seems alot worse go figure i can tell exactly where the air is comming from on it,,lol,,,,well its something to think about,,,,i would like to know how they test this at the factory,,,Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 It may be possible that due to age the glue has dried up and cracked off? (assuming it was there to begin with). Khorns are SUPPOSED to be glued and screwed air tight. Fixing air leaks will definitely increase your bass output. You can use a felt or even thick paper gasket to seal the screw leaks around the driver. Or even a dab of silicone into the screw hole would work. Sounds like you have a handle on it, anyway. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Can someone from Hope chime in here and tell me how you test the air-tightness of the air chamber? Maybe a tester or builder could shed some light on this for us K-Horn owners..i beginning to think the base bin is not all that air tight to begin with,,,i dont think these were ever airtight and if it passed the sound test at Hope maybe its not all that important. Im sure they test each and everyone before they leave and these dont look like they were abused at all for as old as they are.This other one i got has major leak and i think it was that way to begin with or back there in 1972 they were getting good drugs....lol...Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Just a little side story. Years ago, Rolls Royce decided to use General Motor's Turbo Hydramatic automatic transmission, highly regarded (at least at the time) as the best automatic trans in the world. Upon taking delivery of the first transmissions, Rolls decided to "bring the parts up to their own specs". They took the trans apart and refinished certain surfaces, tightening tolerances, etc. After reassembling the trans it didn't work right. Moral of the story is sometimes (vary occasionally) the party who designed and built the thing actually knew what they were doing, and therefore either it won't make any difference to "improve" it or you may be better off leaving well enough alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I don't think that there is any special test concerning the "air-tightness" of the back chamber. I'm sure that they just expect it to be "good enough" during construction as would I when building one. If somebody cut some corners with the glue, who knows, they say never buy a car that was built on a Monday... Sealing the chamber seams with silicone will certainly fix whatever problem you have. However, in defense of Klipsch and Associates, there is a point at which the air actually will block itself when trying to exit a leak, providing it is a small enough gap and the air being moved has a path of lesser resistance to take. That is why the horn works in a corner, even if it is not sealed completely against the walls. However, only you can determine the degree of the problem, we can only guess... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 OK point well taken,,,but then why put a gasket on the woofer acess door??? It seems to me if your were concerned about the acess door you should be concerned about the rest of the chamber...dont get me wrong i love Klipsch and all that intails,,,probably one of the biggest fans around...i got t-shirts you probably never seen among other stuff.I was just posting my progress and maybe other K-Horn owners might feel the need to check the seal on thier bass bins.Im sure the chamber could never be super airtight,,,thats why i would like to know what Hope does to check it...also i always wondered why the workers from Hope dont seem to post here??? If nothing else just to help us out on some stuff like this problem....Rick ps, funny you should mention leave well enough alone,,,i use to think the same thing about you tube amp guys,,,,changing tubes,caps,wires,etc,,,,maybe some should look in the mirror before typing,,,including me huh,,lol,,,im just trying to make these the best they can be and maybe help others out to on what i find..im kinda glad i got these old worn down Ks now i was upset that i could not find a better pair,,,but then i would not have tested them like im doing to these and these might turn out even better than i could have bought,,,i hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyp Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I doubt very much Klipsch tests every Khorn fabricated to verify backchamber airtightness. I don't even know if they test any production samples. Please keep in mind that "airtight" is not the same as "pressure-tested to 10-125 PSI" which is closer to what you are doing. Also, I believe none of the motorboards in Khorns are sealed in place over the slot. The motorboard is designed to be removeable but it should installed "airtight". The woofer is sealed to the motorboard and is installed over the slot as an assembly unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I don't think you can screw up the sound by making it airtight, so don't worry about that. It, in truth, may not have any effect on the sound in the end. As mentioned the air mostly takes the path of least resisitance. Let us know if you detect any improvement in the bass after all this sealing work...I may do the same...LOL! it has always bothered me that I can see light through some gaps in the bass bin when I look real close...warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 You should NOT see light coming through any seams from inside the back chamber! Get out the silicone, kids! The back chamber should be sealed as it requires a certain amount of "pressurization" from the cone. It may not support several atmosheres but it should support probably +/- 2 or 3 lbs per sq. in. above and below one, I would guess. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 ---------------- On 9/15/2004 12:10:49 PM johnnyp wrote: Also, I believe none of the motorboards in Khorns are sealed in place over the slot. The motorboard is designed to be removeable but it should installed "airtight". The woofer is sealed to the motorboard and is installed over the slot as an assembly unit. ---------------- I was also under the impression... it was removable. Kinda like the backs on the Heresys and Cornwalls which are removable and don't have any gasket. I had one Heresy which whistled a little... but nothing a little weather stripping couldn't fix. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 You definetly need to make your bass bins air tight!!!! this is very very important! If your house floods and you have your bins sealed, they will float and prevent your drivers and crossovers from water damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 Hey John ,,,the motor board assembly does have a gasket on it to, just like the acess door,,,and i do understand air tight and air pressure. The reason i even tried this test was just to see how air tight it was,,and when i did it the air came out as fast as i put it in,,,lol...so i decided to do some sealing and now they are much better on air-tightness,,,i will have to wait and see how they work when im done refurbishing them,,,i wont be able to tell you guys if its better sounding now or not,,,this is first pair of K-Horns i ever had and i didnt even hook them up before i started working on them..well this has been interesting so far....i bet Hope does some kind of test besides the singnal test,,,i mean the K-Horns are 4000.00 apiece now,,,i would want them tested out the yazooo if i was buying a new set,,,lol,,,Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Rick, the woofer (cone and surround) itself is not exactly air tight, of course. There is nothing that you can do about that. But the back chamber does need to not leak. I am suprized to hear from you Khorn owners that there is a problem... Anyrate, sealing back chamber leaks will "tighten up" the bass noticeably for you. It will also reduce modulation distortion, which you might also notice a difference in low-end "clarity". DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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