D-MAN Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Well, I currently own a Yamaha (the exception to my "rule"), and dumped my old Denon 6 channel. Audio-wise, I've owned Pioneer Elite, Sony, Marantz, Kenwood, and others that I can't remember. On the western side, I've owned Crown, Phase Linear, McIntosh, Meridian. The US/CAN/UK stuff is really a step up. The build quality alone is enough to matter all by itself. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 First off that's why I like harman it don't sound edgey even with crappy dvd players(not saying yours is) it actually sounds better louder. Second maybe you should of got a power amp an ran it through your preouts for superior stereo listening, and it would improve your hometheater drastically also. Third cambridge audio makes a real good cd player for the money and isn't what they call a throw away. I can't figure what I want an amp or a new source player. Tough call because the denon does sound good on different sources. Anyways just my opinion and I bet that rotel will do you real good once you get it figured out. Congrats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Could you describe the edgy sound that you're hearing? I'm thinking it sounds more like your speakers are wired out of phase; especially because you say that adjusting the crossover affects it. Do you have everything wired + to + and - to -? It's worth checking and since I mix it up all the time it's always the first thing I check. Often times, music will sound edgy when there is a lack of bass. Another factor that could be attributing to this is your room. Try moving your speakers around a bit and see if it doesn't help at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 I agree with WHO ALSO If your ROTEL has an analog pass through get a nice outboard DAC and just use the DVD player as a transport when listening to music. Order the white paper on jitter reduction from www.virmode.com if you feel comfortable taking the lid off your DVD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 19, 2004 Author Share Posted September 19, 2004 thanks guys but as you see from my post a few days back that the edgy sound has cleared up. Not sure the exact cause or fix as I've moved the speakers, set up the receiver and they've had time to break in - or all the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 ---------------- On 9/16/2004 11:06:04 AM BruinsFan wrote: So I finally picked up my Rotel 1056 receiver. So what's my question you ask - well.... When I push the volume the sound, expecially on vocals, get's edgy... ---------------- The Denon 2900 is a particularly nice universal player. Quite smooth sounding so there shouldn't be a problem there. The Rotel RSX 1056 is a fairly powerful receiver with an extremely wide bandwidth that slowly rolls off towards 90 odd Khz. It is less bright and brash than other competitors in this price range. Have you checked the tone settings? If you go to your on screen menu, select 'Tone Setup' and the tone setting will be apparent. There is a facility to adjust the bass and treble. Maybe the treble setting has inadvertenty been adjusted upwards? If not you may wish to make a minor adjustment to the treble setting while your RF5's run in. This could take a few days. If there still seem to be a problem, perhaps there may be other factors causing the edgy sound. Maybe your room is too reflective and when you turn the sound beyond a certain level, you get a problem with the higher frequency sounds bouncing around your room. EDIT: Sorry guys, I was in a hurry and I read the rest of the thread later and what I've said has been covered already! And BruinsFan, did I read correctly? You pushed 105db? Hope you weren't in the same room at the time or you had your fingers in your ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 well that's what the spl meter read. fortunately or unfortunately - I am completely deaf in one ear so - I just turn my head slightly and I can stand next to a jet engine without ear damage. oh and setting this type of equipment is not easy when you only have one ear. Which is why I ask for so much help. It take me a long time to discern subtle changes - if ever. Want to have some fun - move your speakers around and then plug one ear. See how long it takes you to get it back right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 ---------------- On 9/19/2004 5:48:28 AM edwinr wrote: The Denon 2900 is a particularly nice universal player. Quite smooth sounding so there shouldn't be a problem there. ---------------- I know the edginess problem has been solved, but the 2900 still could have been one of the problems, at least in redbook. Yes, the 2900 is a nice universal player, and I've had no complaints about the SACD or DVD-Audio performance. However.....it is seriously lacking in quality redbook performance. It can be somewhat harsh on the top end - at high volumes. I just wanted to remind all 2900 owners of the pure direct function, with display and video both off, available in two-channel analog. It helps the player out tremendously for curbing the high end nasties. Even in this mode, however, some of the nasties are still there. I really did not realize just how harsh of a top end the 2900 has for redbook playback until I started contrasting it with some CD players. I ended up opting for a Jolida JD-100. My modded Jolida JD-100 is now fully broken in and incorporated into my system, and there is no comparison between the two. From here on out, the 2900 is relegated to SACD and DVD-Audio duties. Just some thoughts if you still have some harshness in your system and are using a 2900 for redbook. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I don't want to sound negative, but getting good LOUD sound from home equipment could be a tall order without getting into megabuck systems. Regular home systems just are not designed for sustained high volumes. If LOUD is what you want, get some commercial speakers and a high powered separate amp to match. Then you can play music at concert levels in your house. But LOUD is still LOUD, regardless of the medium. Your ears are not meant for that kind of punishment either, ya know. That is one thing I like about the some of the JBL/Altec/EV line of old (and professional lines of the same). They made some heavy duty hardware that can handle the power. (Where are you going to find 2 to 3 inch voice coils today?) One review shares your observations: The Downside Although the RF-5 has very few faults for a loudspeaker at this price point, there are a few issues. First, at louder listening sessions, the slight harshness exhibited by the RF-5 tended to inspire me to back off of the volume at times. It could be somewhat fatiguing with brighter recordings. That quote comes from www.audiorevolution.com. Oh, well, another country heard from. But, at least, you are not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 ---------------- On 9/20/2004 3:42:59 PM cjgeraci wrote: ---------------- On 9/19/2004 5:48:28 AM edwinr wrote: The Denon 2900 is a particularly nice universal player. Quite smooth sounding so there shouldn't be a problem there. ---------------- I know the edginess problem has been solved, but the 2900 still could have been one of the problems, at least in redbook. Yes, the 2900 is a nice universal player, and I've had no complaints about the SACD or DVD-Audio performance. However.....it is seriously lacking in quality redbook performance... Carl. ---------------- Yeah, no argument from me, Carl. What I said was relative to what one would expect from a universal player. I have a universal Pioneer, and CD playback while 'good', doesn't approach that of my dedicated Sony CD/SACD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 "You pushed 105db? Hope you weren't in the same room at the time or you had your fingers in your ears!" C'mon, live a little! You must have very sensitive ears. I can listen to a few songs in a row, 110 db+ before turning the volume back down. I do not listen all the time to elevated volumes, as I know that even at the OHSA time-weighted standards for exposure, you will still experience hearing loss. Edgy sound? Some people suggested playback equipment in the chain as part of the problem. I would tend to say that room acoustics can definately have a more pronounced effect than any part of the playback chain (other than the speakers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 So you guys saying a dedicated cd player rather than a dvd player with really good specs is better than say upgrading your amplifier for getting rid of certain harshness, and thinner tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 You know in this review... http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/classe-cdp-10-cd-player-6-2003.html They say the player makes CD's sound as good as most SACD players. And it's a Canadian brand too...so WHO said nothing good comes out of Canada??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ---------------- On 9/21/2004 2:40:12 AM nicholtl wrote: You know in this review... http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/classe-cdp-10-cd-player-6-2003.html They say the player makes CD's sound as good as most SACD players. And it's a Canadian brand too...so WHO said nothing good comes out of Canada??? ---------------- Good read I am a review nut. I always thought Canada made awesome products. I especially like Canada's styling on almost everything they make. They defintely have style. I seen the classe amps and their really cool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ---------------- On 9/21/2004 2:18:32 AM michael hurd wrote: "You pushed 105db? Hope you weren't in the same room at the time or you had your fingers in your ears!" C'mon, live a little! You must have very sensitive ears... ---------------- Yeah, I'm just a sensitive kind of guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ---------------- On 9/21/2004 2:18:32 AM michael hurd wrote: Edgy sound? Some people suggested playback equipment in the chain as part of the problem. I would tend to say that room acoustics can definately have a more pronounced effect than any part of the playback chain (other than the speakers). ---------------- Right on Michael, about room acoustics. I read here about people that have to work to get good bass from their Klipschorns... Whereas I am over endowed. With bass that is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ---------------- On 9/21/2004 2:26:37 AM wheelman wrote: So you guys saying a dedicated cd player rather than a dvd player with really good specs is better than say upgrading your amplifier for getting rid of certain harshness, and thinner tone? ---------------- Actually, getting an outboard DAC for audio, while keeping your DVD player as a transport and DVD player, would do the job. I got my MSB Link III for under $300 from audiogon and it's made a very noticeable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ---------------- On 9/21/2004 2:26:37 AM wheelman wrote: So you guys saying a dedicated cd player rather than a dvd player with really good specs is better than say upgrading your amplifier for getting rid of certain harshness, and thinner tone? ---------------- Like everything else, it depends. Which is the worse offender, your amplifier or your source, on where to start first? I personally would upgrade my source and my pre/amp before I upgraded my amplification, unless you are making the jump to a tubed amp. It was pointed out that you shouldn't expect a simple cure with home theater-based systems if you like to listen to music really loud, and a review of the RF-5s was referenced. That's a fairly good point. The tweeter/horn of the RF-5s does have some limitations, and that is part of the reason why many choose to go the Reference seven route or to Heritage, Legends, etc. However, that being said, even with limitations, certain basic concepts can help improve the lot. But, I agree; do not have unrealistic expectations. Meuge also makes a good point about outboard DACs. With respect to sources, you can either add a nice outboard DAC to any transport, to help remove that "digital" thin sound on the higher end or upgrade your CD player. The outboard DAC is a worthwhile upgrade for someone who does not want to shell out big bucks for a dedicated CD player. As Meuge pointed out, you can find some outboard DACs for a relatively low cost, and they will greatly improve the analog sound of your setup. In my case, I was near the end of my upgrade - already into tubes with a preamp- so a tubed CD player was a logical choice for me. However, for those who have the budget ($900-1200), I highly recommend a tubed CD player to warm up the CD sound and take the edge off. Michael, I just assumed that room acoustics would be addressed by the listener. That is probably a faulty assumption on my part. Yes, I agree, that proper room treatment should have a more drastic improvement on your overall sound that virtually all of your other upgrades, with the exception of perhaps the speakers. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Thanks for the info guys. Man for 300 I could get a pretty good used cd player. I have seen some pictures of rigs with those dacs and wondered how well they sounded. I will keep both in mind. I wonder if vintage cd players are good compared to newer ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Why can't you use digital input to your receiver or whatever you have opposed to using the dac on the cd player? For example, I use a PC as my music hub and digital out of my m-auido sound card. The digital out is bit perfect so the receiver basically does all the DAC stuff. No need for a silly 1000 dollar cd player, my 25 dollar one does the same thing! This goes for DVD's also. However I do need a pretty good video card to make up for what an expensive dvd player can do. But as far as audio goes, its only digital. I have said this before, a bit is a bit is a bit. If you can reduce the number of times you buy a DAC you then you can save some real money! hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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