mtbsej Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Hey guy's I've been thinking of upgrading. I have a rw12 (very good sub) but the upgrade bug has hit me. What do you guy's think: Sell my rw12 and get a rsw12 or keep my RW 12 and get a second one. Thanks guy's Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 if all you're asking is which is better, the answer is: - one single rsw12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Just in case you decide to sell the RW-12, i might be interested, so drop me a PM if you decide to go for the RSW series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtbsej Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Actually, depending on how much I could sell the RW12, it pretty close to the same amount of money. I know the RSW 12 is better than the RW12. I guess I am wondering which would be the better upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I don't know what output levels the RW-12's are capable of, so they may be able to push harder there, but the RSW-12 will give them the five across the eyes if you're talking sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 well compare the specs RW-12: 21-120Hz ±3dB 113dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter 2 RW-12's: 21-120Hz ±3dB 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter (+6dB max acoustic output due to having 2 speakers) RSW-12 22-120Hz ±3dB 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter So which is better? They're actually just about the same. The only difference then is placement options. It is possible to get a flatter response with two speakers, but it is also possible to get a bumpier one as well. That said, I would say that if you feel like you've got even coverage throughout the frequency range, then go with the one RSW-12. If you feel like you've got peaks and nulls due to room response, then go with the 2 subs if you've got many options for placement. For what it's worth, in most of the cases that you want more bass, treating your room is actually going to provide better results (and is cheaper). Also, correctly-implemented room treatments will make the rest of the frequency spectrum (mids and highs) sound better at the same time which means even more bang for the buck. If you want, you can find lots more info in the architectural forum. As a side note, wouldn't distortion be greater when using the 2 less powerful speakers versus just the one? Or does it go the other way around because the "2 less powerful" speakers have a greater cone surface area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtbsej Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 That is very interesting. thanks for all the information. I will definetly look into what I can do to my room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myriadcorp Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 When I originally inquired about the RSW12 at ultimate electronics they informed me the RSW12 was not being carried anymore. It could be just ultimate is not getting it. So I had to chose between a RW12 and RSW15. The sales manager told me the RW12 sounded better than the 15. The 15 cost twice as much as the RW12 so I took his word for it. Why would he cut himself out of double the money? Well after all my research and such I purchased a SVS PB12plus/2. It has two 12 inch woofers. I listened to the RW12 and the RSW15 but not at high levels. I was not very impressed. Granted I didnt have a heavy base sample cranked up when I listened. I have a paradigm servo 15 in my living room and the SVS is going in my basement with my klipsch. Once its all setup I will post how it sounds. I anticipate it will sound better than my servo 15. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 ---------------- On 10/27/2004 8:46:24 PM myriadcorp wrote: The sales manager told me the RW12 sounded better than the 15. The 15 cost twice as much as the RW12 so I took his word for it. ---------------- laff. you trusted the sales manager's advice at UE? there's a reason an rsw15 costs twice as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 ---------------- On 10/27/2004 8:03:56 PM DrWho wrote: well compare the specs RW-12: 21-120Hz ±3dB 113dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter 2 RW-12's: 21-120Hz ±3dB 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter (+6dB max acoustic output due to having 2 speakers) RSW-12 22-120Hz ±3dB 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter So which is better? They're actually just about the same. ---------------- well, you left some other specs out. they're not the same. trust me. even 2 of 'em. RW12 = FTC Rated Power: 340 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 825 watts / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal operating conditions RSW12 = FTC Rated Power: 625 watts continuous, 35-110Hz @ <1% THD / Dynamic Power*: 2400 watts @ <1% THD / *Dynamic power indicates the actual power this amplifier will deliver to the woofer under normal operating conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 DrWho wrote: well compare the specs RW-12: 113dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter 2 RW-12's: 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter (+6dB max acoustic output due to having 2 speakers) RSW-12 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter Actually, it's +3 dB due to having 2 speakers and doubled the power, not 6 dB. So it's 116 dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Well I've heard people claim both 3dB and 6dB as being the "official" increase in SPL for a doubling of the speakers. From measurements of those on the forum, 6dB has seemed to be a more constant trend (though 3dB is indeed a doubling of electrical power). I didn't mention the amp specs because they don't really mean that much when there are already published specs of max output. The RSW does have a larger amp, which means the speaker can handle more power, but all those extra watts are being used to get another 6dB...that basically means both drivers have the same sensitivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 ---------------- On 10/27/2004 11:20:41 PM DrWho wrote: Well I've heard people claim both 3dB and 6dB as being the "official" increase in SPL for a doubling of the speakers. From measurements of those on the forum, 6dB has seemed to be a more constant trend (though 3dB is indeed a doubling of electrical power). ---------------- It's 6db only if the two drivers are coupled (act as one) which requires very close proximity... such as stacking or in the same enclosure. If the two subs are moved apart, as would be the case to attempt to balance out some room effects, you'll fall back down to the 3db gain. The truth for most people is somewhere inbetween. If the quoted specs were measured under similar circumstances... the RSW should give you more output then the RW used in different locations. I also believe that the RSW driver is substantially better, but this would not show up in the specs. Good luck... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 one single sub will be easier to set up. less problem of cancelation,placement,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Just get two RSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i agree with psg when you double something it s +3db. or i ve missed something. can you explain how do you find +6 formica? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 ---------------- On 10/28/2004 7:57:56 AM doudou wrote: can you explain how do you find +6 formica? ---------------- My understanding of it is you gain 3dB by doubling the driver area (efficiency) and 3dB is gained by doubling the power. If you double the number of woofers as well as the input power... then you will gain 6dB as long as the woofers are coupled, ie: close enough to be "in phase" at all frequencies. Someone posted the mathematical proof of it on another forum several months ago... but I can't seem to find it right now. However, this can be confirmed through measurement as well as a woofer simulation software like WinISD. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdsang Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I for one have personally tested and tried out to see what would happen with speaker distance. I used a cd that has frequency test on it and an SPL meter. Because it was on the computer and had one woofer and 2 sats, I tested this in the upper frequecies, but I belive it would work on lower ones as well. I placed the 2 sats to gether. Played just one and used my SPL meter. This test was along time ago, but I'll use 80 dB as an example. I turned the other one on and it was 86 dB. This was tested in at least 4 postions. I kept testing until the dB differnce changed. So at roughly 2 feet is about when it started to drop. Of course mileage may very with the distance but I kept testing it incase the SPL meter made errors and it was consistant. But from useing the WINISD, powering 2 woofers from the same amp next to each other will give you 3 DB. If you had 2 seperate amps powering each, its 6 dB. Hope this helps. CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 ---------------- On 10/27/2004 10:58:56 PM psg wrote: DrWho wrote: well compare the specs RW-12: 113dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter 2 RW-12's: 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter (+6dB max acoustic output due to having 2 speakers) RSW-12 119dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1 meter Actually, it's +3 dB due to having 2 speakers and doubled the power, not 6 dB. So it's 116 dB. ---------------- Technicality speaking this is partially correct. But that is not accounting for constructive interference, which also means you can have deconstructive interference and actually have LESS bass than before! This is unlikely but I would say you will have somewhere in-between +3 to +6 dB gain depending on your phase shift. Its important to have an SPL meter to get this perfect. IMO, I would say go with dual RW-12's. You'll probably get more headroom and definitely a lot more cabinet volume out of the two powered drivers, but the output it will be very close between the dual rws vs the single rsw. The other notable advantage with the RW-12 is the placement features. As front firing front ported drivers, you can put them back up against any wall or even build flush into a wall. That might be pretty cool later down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 doudou, No you are not the only french speaking icitte,t'e ben entoure.L'general oreille va bientot former la republique du infra grave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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