recent post and link to interconnects

[Daddy Dee]

Seems like it was just a few weeks ago someone posted a link to some high quality and very reasonably priced interconnects.

I looked at them on the web and found them an attractive option, but now that I'm looking for them again (didn't bookmark the link ) and have searched the forum, but can't find the thread. Also cannot recall the member who posted.

Anyone remember this post or the brand of interconnects? The interconnects had a woven multicolor sheath over the wires.

Any help appreciated.

[arthurs]

was it elementcable?

[nicholtl]

They were regarding Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects, still available in limited quantaties on www.audioadvisor.com. They also have some deals on PS Audio too, but those are FAST disappearing.

[Guy Landau]

I can recommend the cables from RadioShack (the$10 ones, with gold plated plugs). I have a friend, who's a high end dealer, that uses them with his $30k amps and swears by them.

I've bought a pair last week and they're great.

[Erik Mandaville]

I have to say I agree with Guy. The cables sold by Home Depot under the RCA brand name are really quite good, too, and are gold-plated like the Radio Shack stuff. The RCAs might be cheaper, still.

ANY decent coax cable with reasonable low capacitance will pass a signal along just as well as the ones we find in the glossy magazines. They are just not dressed up as nicely; and unfortunately, that's what really adds to the cost. We could probably say the same for the 1 inch thick aluminum face plates on amps and preamps that cost a fortune to produce but do absolutely zero for the sound.

...I think I should stop here!

[nicholtl]

Well I posted this response in another thread in a different section, but since we're drifting onto the topic (and since that thread is sinking into oblivion), I'll repost it here in the hopes of sparking some stimulating conversation.

While I have not quite yet decided my stance on the issue of high dollar interconnects and cables (leaning towards paying the premium though), let me play Devil's Advocate for a second.

I find it vastly interesting to note that while this forum is comprised mostly of well-educated, well-informed, experienced, and excellent equipment-owning audiophiles, almost everyone recommends only good constructed cables without the "snake oil." (In other words, nobody ever recommends expensive or high-end cabling.  I've never heard, "yeah man, go for it!  Drop 3 G's on those Tara Labs!")  I've spoken with Rob (Formica) about this before, and to his credit, he is VERY good at explaining why 12AWG is 12AWG, regardless of price, perception, or pretty pink packaging.

And yet, aren't some of the reviewers of prominent audio publications audiophiles themselves? And yet they seem to love, recommend, and use what some may dub "esoteric" cables. Obviously, cynics may site that all reviews are influenced by advertising dollars, and while it may be naive to say that isn't true to an extent, that's all it is. Too AN EXTENT. It is not wholly true. You would think there would be some honest and rebel vigilante reviewer who would suddenly break loose of his iron chains and defy audience and editor, writing about how all this is bogus, snake oil, smoke and mirrors, voodoo, and what have you.  But have you seen him? Not I.  In fact, I have not read ONE review or reviewer EVER that stated there was NO difference in cabling, electrically or sonically.  Art Dudley of Stereophile was the closest it ever came, when he reviewed Audioquests top-of-the-line interconnects which had a battery attached to them.  Yes, a BATTERY.  Supposedly, they charged the dielectric.  Whatever.  And Art said that too.  Whatever.  BUT...he heard a difference.  Slightest of slight though it may have been.

So I ask, which one is it then? I know at a certain point, such as Nordost's Valhalla line, the point of diminishing returns becomes ridiculous ($11K for a pair of 5m speaker cables? Come on!).  On the other hand, any well-demoed enthusiast MUST admit that they have at one point in time heard an audible, however miniscule, difference between budget/moderately priced cables (Radioshack to Bettercables) compared to their higher-end counterparts (Shunyata to Transparent Audio) played on revealing systems.  It may require an Indian Arm Burn or Chinese Water Torture, but I gaurantee you can squeeze it out of them eventually.  I've heard it.  It's there.  There's a difference.

In fact, as you all know, a lot of people are quick to point out that those who hear differences are simply "fooling themselves," that it's a classic trick of mind-over-matter, placebo at it's best, and that because they just dropped $2 G's on the newest Kimber Kable, they damn well BETTER hear a difference! But maybe, just maybe, it's in fact the other way around? Maybe the engineers, logical thinkers, and left-side-of-the-brain users are so adamant about wanting to prove their theory that copper is copper, silver is silver, fancy presentation, slick packaging, and colorful mesh skin won't make your cable sound better; that they fool themselves into thinking any differences they perceive during auditions are but mere afterthoughts, neuro synapses, and a summarily dismissed notion that never came to be?

I think what it all boils down to is which of the 2 camps you fall into: 1) Mr. Pragmatic Hi-Fi, or 2) Mr. Pursuit of Perfection.

If the difference in the last 5% of my system's resolution comes at the tidy sum of $1-2K, so f_cking be it. I'd rather take the plunge knowing I'll never have to buy another set of cables, and knowing that what I am hearing is indeed 100% of what my gear can offer, rather than saving myself some money and always have that "woulda, coulda, shoulda" gnawing in the back of my mind.

[Erik Mandaville]

Gosh, Dee:

I should say 'sorry' for being absolutely no help whatsoever with your question. Instead, I go off on a rant about one of my personal 'issues' with high end audio -- and all it's expensive side-streets.

Erik

[sunnysal]

dee I posted about the sael at audioadvisor on audioquest cables, a brand I happen to like (solid core, good diaeletectric materials, solid contruction)...they were selling cheap! www.audioadvisor.com look under "clearance".

I bought some sidewinder cables, and snapped up some diamondback on sale as well. warm regards, tony

[Erik Mandaville]

Dee:

Before you spends lots, let me offer to make you a pair, ok? I have some experience with different bulk cable types, and there a number using foam Teflon, all copper center conductor and shield, with very low capacitance figures. You choose the RCAs for the termination, send them to me, and I'll make 'em for you for LOTS less than what you would pay for already finished cables!

[Guy Landau]

----------------

On 11/6/2004 2:33:52 PM Erik Mandaville wrote:

I have to say I agree with Guy. The cables sold by Home Depot under the RCA brand name are really quite good, too, and are gold-plated like the Radio Shack stuff. The RCAs might be cheaper, still.

ANY decent coax cable with reasonable low capacitance will pass a signal along just as well as the ones we find in the glossy magazines. They are just not dressed up as nicely; and unfortunately, that's what really adds to the cost. We could probably say the same for the 1 inch thick aluminum face plates on amps and preamps that cost a fortune to produce but do absolutely zero for the sound.

...I think I should stop here!

----------------

I'm not saying that there's no difference between cables. The prices I've payed for cables, range from $200 to $1k and I honestly feel that I hear the differences.

Dee was asking for a cheap cable recommendation and I recommended the RS cable. It's cheap, it's great sounding and can compete with a lot of high $ brands.

Is it the best cable in the world? No it isn't, but to get this kind of performance for 10 bucks, sometimes I ask myself, why should anyone want to spend more?

[Erik Mandaville]

I'm not saying there isn't a difference, either. I'm saying it's not necessary to spend more money on the 'dressing-up' and cosmetic aspect of a cable than the cable itself.

I've made cables out of twisted pair of magnet cable and the cheapest jacks I could find (that's what I wanted to test), and they sounded just as good as a pair of $1000 Jena Labs interconnects I happened to have on hand for comparison. As a matter of fact, the twisted pair of 24AWG magnet wire sounded open and clear, whereas the Jena Labs stuff was warm and rounded off (which some may like, which is just fine with me!)with even very expensive RCA jacks on the ends of them.

[garymd]

I have a pair of the Sidewinders hooked up to my SACD player and they sound about as good as the $10 R/S gold I/Cs I had on before. The only I/Cs I've used that really made a significant difference are the Siltechs. All the others (all in the $10-$40 price range) sound pretty much the same to my ears. Only very subtle differences.

[kenratboy]

Bluejeanscable looks like a good deal to me. Some serious quality parts and reasonable prices.

I also swear by Parts Express for their stuff

[Daddy Dee]

Gentlemen,

Thanks, all. interesting discussion.

Nichotl, yes I think those were the ones.

Erik, very kind offer. I'll check with you on that.

[fini]

I've found good deals at Accessories4less.com. They've got some closeouts on AR stuff. I've used the ATS brand from A4L, with no complaints.

[kev313]

I also agree that cables can make a difference. I used the Radio Shack cables on my Rega Planet and Magnum tuner for a LONG time. When I switched to KK Hero I noticed a big change. There are many here who disagree. Frankly, I don't see how one could think that two identical tubes produced by different manufacturers will yield different sound without also accepting the same for cables. I don't really want to feed this debate (which pops up 2 or 3 times a year), but note that I said I only noticed a DIFFERENCE. That is not to be confused with IMPROVEMENT in all cases.

[Deang]

If I switch out my Monster Z100i interconnects for the Cardas 300B twinlinks -- I can hear a difference, but can't figure out what the difference is -- the change is just too subtle for me to pin down. The construction of these two cables is vastly different, and if one considers the descriptions often attributed to the difference in the sound interconnects make -- you'd think I'd be hearing a HUGE difference.

I'm using Kimber 8TC between the Klipschorns and QUADs, a purchase I made with the Klipschorns -- mostly because I thought they looked really cool. I also had it in my head that the twisted braid might offer some shielding properties. The cables came unterminated, and because of all the goofing around I do, the bare stranded ends started looking kind of tattered after a while, so -- I cut off the ends and then terminated them with banannas that I crimped and soldered using WBT solder. Basically, I added a big hunk of metal to the end of the cable, mushed it down, heated it up big time (really upsetting those delicate little electrons) and covered it all with liquid lead and silver. Now, doesn't conventional wire wisdom dictate that I should have heard SOME difference? Want to guess what difference I heard? I guess my system just isn't "revealing" enough.

This cable thing is a bunch of crap -- the shifts in signature are so miniscule, so subtle, that you have to strain the gonads to hear it. If you want to upgrade something that you can actually hear without hurting yourself -- well, you know what to do.