jfmacken Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 My heresy I speakers were produced in '77, and maybe it is time to replace the oil caps with some film/foil ones. The question of the day is, what types of caps are preferred? I would like something that is a good bang for the buck, and that would improve the quality of sound. -John M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay L Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 just use a metallized polypropylene cap and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Auricaps or Hovlands, Solen if you want even cheaper. The higher quality the cap the better the sound though. Contact DeanG he can get them for you for less than Parts Express sells some of them for if I am not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfmacken Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Those metallized solen caps are dirt cheap. I wonder if they would even sound better than my aged stock heresy caps. I could pick up hovlands if those are preferred because they are a local (madison). I definitely don't want to go overboard in price though.. Some people here seem to be recommended the audiocap theta's which are on the partsexpress website, but they cost around 6 times more than the solens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I would be very surprised if the metallized solen caps don't sound better than your aged stock heresy caps. That being said, from what I've heard hovlands, thetas, and kimbers are suppose to be even that much better -- but you said you didn't want to go overboard in price!! I myself am considering kimber kaps (also at parts express) as the are the cheapest of the "elite" bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBasham Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Do you guys replace both caps in each (Type E) crossover or just the one closest to the tweeter in the circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I would replace both caps. One effects the tweeter and the other effects both the tweeter and squawker. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfmacken Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 I am planning on replacing both in each speaker, certainly. I think I am going to experiment with the thetas, they sound promising. One last thing... I understand that a 2.0 uf value is required- should this change at all when you have both the tweeter/midrange drivers attenuated by 3db (decrement tap number by 1 on each)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I wish I would have bookmarked all of the threads with my inane opinions in them, because I sure don't have the time anymore to repeat them. The Solens are dirt cheap for a reason, and I would only use them if you can't afford anything else. Hovlands and Thetas are true film and foil types, and are "the best" from the standpoint of being almost completely loss-less, that is -- almost no resistance at all. Of course, the original capacitors are somewhat lossy in comparison, and this was factored in and played a part in the original voicing. So, using loss-less capacitors tends to bring the signature of the speaker much further forward. After doing this, some find it necessary to insert an L-pad to attenuate the output. I think a simpler solution is to use capacitors that have a little bit of loss which keeps the voicing close to the same -- yet still offers and provides the majority of the cleanliness and smoothness associated with the quality film types. That means thick filmed metallized polypropylenes with quality terminations and wire. I use Auricaps, Kimber capacitors, and would also consider the apparently very fine Sonicaps. Another good choice are the Jensen paper in oils. However, the required values are not readily available from U.S. vendors, and are somewhat cost prohibitive. Hans Jensen does custom wind them for me, but I need to order at least 10 caps at a time. As far as the inductors go, there should at least be a decent air core in the HF section, and all of the Klipsch networks I've handled so far use one. Al puts as much emphasis on the inductors as I do on the caps, but I think the same applies here -- you can get too much of a good thing -- and I just don't believe removing all of the loss out the circuit is a necessarily a good thing for the sound. I think cheap polyesters and metallized types are grainy and gritty -- but I don't think I can say that about cheap inductors. I just coat the OEM inductors with hot melt to pad them from vibration. I don't like the old OEM iron cores, or iron cores in general -- but the PCBs preclude the use of big air cores or quality steel laminate types. With the PCBs, you have to make careful choices due to the room you have to work with -- and I believe the geography is best used for quality capacitors. For the Heritage boards, I like the Erse steel laminate from Parts Express (Super-Q). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Any opinions on Dayton brand caps also available at parts express? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hey Dean: Has anyone ever done a crossover upgrade on an Academy speaker? Would this even be "suggested"? Curious.... Popbumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I bought a few of the Dayton caps from Parts Express to do some testing on them. I was sort of surprised at how well they tested as far as ESR and consistency cap to cap. I haven't actually built a crossover using them yet, but see nothing so far that would keep them from being good crossover caps. I would put them a bit above the Solens that I have tested in quality based on what is admittedly a small test sample of both. I think that duty for a cap in a crossover is likely the easiest job a cap can have. What we would really like to have is a cap with excellent long term stability in a crossover. What will it be like when it ages 10 or 20 years? That one is tough to know. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 "should this change at all when you have both the tweeter/midrange drivers attenuated by 3db (decrement tap number by 1 on each)?" When you move the midrange down one tap you should add a 15R/10W resistor in parallel with the driver to keep the crossover point the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I'm not DeanG, but I cannot see any reason why upgrading the caps and coils on an Academy wouldn't be a good idea. Go for it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfmacken Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 THanks for the info on the resistor for midrange attenuation:) Personally, I like to drop down the tweeter, and only the tweeter. So far I prefer having the midrange slightly louder than the other drivers (stock position). Maybe i'll try sticking in the resistor for the sake of achieving optimal balance, after I install the new caps of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 ---------------- On 11/18/2004 1:51:23 PM djk wrote: "should this change at all when you have both the tweeter/midrange drivers attenuated by 3db (decrement tap number by 1 on each)?" When you move the midrange down one tap you should add a 15R/10W resistor in parallel with the driver to keep the crossover point the same. ---------------- Dennis, Wouldn't this give you a total of about a 6 db drop to the mid-range? About 3 for the tap and another 3 db for the resistor. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 On 11/18/2004 10:33:13 AM BEC wrote: I bought a few of the Dayton caps from Parts Express to do some testing on them. I was sort of surprised at how well they tested as far as ESR and consistency cap to cap. I haven't actually built a crossover using them yet, but see nothing so far that would keep them from being good crossover caps. I would put them a bit above the Solens that I have tested in quality based on what is admittedly a small test sample of both. Bob, In your opinion how do the Dayton Metallized Polypropylene Crossover capacitors compare to the much more expensive Hovlands, Thetas, Auricaps, and Kimber models (in construction at least)? With the Daytons costing about ten times less the then Kimbers, they are hard not to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 ---------------- On 11/18/2004 3:20:49 PM STL wrote: On 11/18/2004 10:33:13 AM BEC wrote: I bought a few of the Dayton caps from Parts Express to do some testing on them. I was sort of surprised at how well they tested as far as ESR and consistency cap to cap. I haven't actually built a crossover using them yet, but see nothing so far that would keep them from being good crossover caps. I would put them a bit above the Solens that I have tested in quality based on what is admittedly a small test sample of both. Bob, In your opinion how do the Dayton Metallized Polypropylene Crossover capacitors compare to the much more expensive Hovlands, Thetas, Auricaps, and Kimber models (in construction at least)? With the Daytons costing about ten times less the then Kimbers, they are hard not to consider. ---------------- Well, I don't know. I haven't yet wanted to pay the price of all of the "audiophile" brands so that I could find out the answer to that. I did buy some Jenson PIO's and was not impressed with them in testing. Got about the same results on those as with some of the cheapest Xircon polyester caps. Claims of great audio performance in a cap just sounds funny to me. Like I said before, I think audio in a crossover is likely the easiest job any cap ever had to perform. I like parts that industry uses. I would feel better using a cap that could get through QC at a nuclear power plant than I would about one that has all sorts of praise from audio folks. The manufacturer of a cap that got used in a nuclear power plant would have to back up every claim they made with real testing. I don't think that a claim by some "audio expert" saying "sounds great to me" would impress them much. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Thanks Bob, I like your logic! Similarily, that is why I use Tripp-lite for my power conditioning instead of any of those over-priced, over-hyped "audiophile" brands. In the labs where I work (I'm a EE btw), I see Tripp-lite used to condition and protect electronic test equipement that's far more expensive (and sensative) than even the highest priced audio gear. One more thing Bob, just to be clear specifically which Dayton caps have you studied? They have two models: the Dayton Film and Foil Polypropylene Crossover Capacitors ( http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=70 ) and the Dayton Metallized Polypropylene Crossover Capacitors ( http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=69 ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Edit: These are the metallized polypropylene caps from PE. $1.50 each in lots of 4. Here are the test results for 4 Dayton 3 uf caps that I have. These are 5% spec caps and the worst of them is out only about 1%. #1 C= 3.023 uf ESR = 0.013 ohms D = 0.000 #2 C= 3.005 uf ESR = 0.011 ohms D = 0.000 #3 C= 2.966 uf ESR = 0.015 ohms D = 0.000 #4 C= 3.007 uf ESR = 0.012 ohms D = 0.000 Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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