wormdoggy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Hello everyone, I want to say that this is my first post and it is a pleasure to be part of this very informative forum. I purchased a pair of Klipschorn's having just recently sold my La Scala's after 10 years. I love the sound of these speakers and they certainly have a much richer bass response then the La Scala's. However, I am concerned about the proper placement of these speakers. The La Scala's were much more forgiving as far as placement in my home....the Khorn's on the other hand, I was told, need very defined corners. Can anyone provide me with the proper placement schematics of these speakers. Do they require dead corners or are false corners also suitable. Any information or access to this information would be very much appreciated. Thanks again. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Welcome to the forum, wormdoggy. Several forum members have some fine-looking false corners. Check-out Dean G's, for example. He did a step-by-step that was awesome. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 In the top right corner of most all of the site pages, you'll see a box with "Search the Klipsch Forums" Type in "False", hit enter, tell the Misses you'll be to bed late, grab a sandwich and a couple cold ones, you'll be here for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 snug into corners, wide wall better than narrow one, if possible, real corners better than false ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Whatever else you do ensure that the Khorns are "sealed" tightly into the corners. The easiest and least expensive way to do that is to purchase some lengths of foam pipe wrap available from any hardware store for very little money ( under $10.00 for a pair of Khorns ).The foam wrap designed for 3/4 or 1" pipe should be entirely adequate. Affix the foam tubing to the rear of your Bass bins and then shove your horns against the corner walls as tightly as possible so that any airspace between your speakers and the walls is eliminated. You will experience tighter,lower,more defined bass and ( Here's what suprised me! ) ...smoother upper bass and midrange. An additional tip. If your Khorns use the K400 ( cast metal ) mid horn buy a couple of rolls of butyl rubber tape from your local RV dealer and wrap the midhorns with it. This will add a little more more smoothness to the overall presentation from your speakers. If yours are newer models with the composite 401 horns it is unlikely for this to make a difference that you can hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdoggy Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Thank you for the responses.......I look forward to this chat forum with enthusiasm. I'll grab some chips for snacks and start reading old discussion topics. PS: Lynnm, interesting theory on the Pipe Wrap. It so happens that I own a Pipe wrapping company. Mechanical Insulation. I'll give it a go! Cheers Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 in that caase, try wrapping your speaker cable swith the pipe insualation and see if it makes adifference in the sound... (seriously) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Welcome to the crew. Everyone brings something to the table. There are three issues. One is that the K-Horn uses the corner to form the missing walls of the final flare of the horn. Sealing the surfaces which abut the wall with some sort of material can make it air tight and this is a good thing. The alternative is a false corner or putting a plywood back on the bass horn. All to get a good extension up to the face of the bass bin. The second is that the K-Horn needs the extension of the corner which extends a bit farther into the room. This is to say we're looking at the next five or six feet, or more, as an extension of the bass horn. It would be nice if there is not a door, window, kitchen pass through. But anyone's situation might dictate what we have to live with. Fortunately, at least floors extend that far. Here I'm thinking about theoritical situation where there is an outdoor corner which is large, but is not a room. The third is that we're not really dealing with only the five or six foot extension of a good corner and a sealed corner, but rather with bass reinforcement caused by the room itself. This is true of all speakers and where the listener sits. This third issue is more problematic and more abstract. To a large extent, we're sitting inside a speaker box formed by the room; rather than outside a speaker box listening at a distance. This is why there is discussion of room dimensions, speaker placement, standing waves, etc. But there is typically little to do. Most rooms leave us few options. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 What if the floors are crooked? Like about 1/2" fall from the corner? And the walls are also crooked? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdoggy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ok............I've just finished allot of reading on the proper corners required for the Khorns. Haven't done this much reading since college.........I must really love my speakers. Anyway, my room has two wonderful corners for the speakers and the size of the room is 11 ft in width and 22 feet in length. What concerns me is: 1. The vibration caused on the walls since the walls are drywall with 16inch centre studs. Don't know if that is enough rigidity for the speakers. Is accoustical lining required? AND 2. Sealing the speakers to the corners. Although I have read some documentation on this, I still can't seem to understand the concept. Are there any pictures available for viewing on how to properly seal the Khorns? Once I get this right I will post some pictures. Thank you. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdoggy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ahhhh..........never mind about the seal. I got IT!!!. Noticed a picture on one of the older posts that decribed it very well. Can't believe that small amount of insulation will make that much of a difference. Incredible! Thanks Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Does this help ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 JJKIZAK Re:What if the floors are crooked? Like about 1/2" fall from the corner? And the walls are also crooked? Don't sweat it. The farther from the throat of horn the less critical the geometry of the horn flare ( within limits of course ). Consider a Khorn firmly sealed into a corner of a room with no openings/obstructions for 48" on either side of it and further let's assume that the floor is absolutely dead level for 48" in front of it. That means we have a perfect horn mouth extension to complete the horn flare. Well NO!! In that room the effective dimensions of the virtual horn mouth (or bell as some would have it ) would be 48" X 48 " X 84" to 120" depending on ceiling height and ignoring completely such factors as sloping ceilings etc. In sum If you can seal your horns into corners the design and accompanying physics allow for less than perfect conditions. I have a window that is way too close to my left Khorn but the Khorns are marvelous still. I posted a pic of that situation and farking near started a riot here. I agree my conditions are not ideal but I still spend as many hours per week as I can listening to the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hey lynnm, Do you have any pics of your mod with the butyl tape. I'm interested in other options besides rope caulk and Dynamat. Is it removeable w/o a mess? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Sorry no pics. I'll never forget having mein frau walk in on me after grocery shopping and seeing me applying the butyl tape to a midhorn demanding "WHATTHEHELL are you doing to our speakers ??" ! She had already been converted to the sound of Klipsch by our KLF30s and mildly resisted my quest for Klipschorns.Her resistance was based primarily based upon her belief that the KLFs were so good that any improvement could not be worth any extra cost. The first words out of her mouth on hearing HER newly acquired and cosmetically disastrous 1982 Khorns were " Oh my God!! The whole room is the speaker !" She went on to say that she couldn't believe the sound. The friend who accompanied me on the road trip to get them simply lay back in a chair and said: " This is fantastic!! Back to the original story! I explained what I was about and she went into the bedroom to read/sulk. I finally finished the project and SWMBO came into the room as I put her favourite LP on the turntable and lowered the arm. She listened for about 30 seconds and while dancing about kissed me. She admitted that the sound was better than she could have ever dreamed of. That butyl tape adheres pretty ferociously and removing it could be a challenge especially if one were attempting to remove it from MY K400s.The butyl tape is not simply window/door weather stripping as sold for windows and doors. This stuff is also sold as plumber's tape at many times the price at some hardware stores. I paid about $10.00 for a 25 foot roll at a not especially low cost RV shop nearby. I found the same stuff at a local hardware store in a blister pack labelled Plumber's Tape and the price for a 6 inch roll was $5.99. The math: Butyl Rubber Window surround tape at an expensive RV dealer works out to about 30 cents/inch. The Plumber's Tape in a blister pack amounts to about $ 1.25/inch In any event this mod is inexpensive.At worst you will hear no audible difference and that being the case you will have no need to reverse it because if you ever decide to sell your horns the mod will be a selling feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 There may be a legit issue on whether a dry wall with studs is good, or bad, or enough. One fellow had a site on the internet reporting how a cinderblock corner gave better results. I'm not sure that controlled for all variables. There have been a few turns around the mullberry bush. One fellow on the forum long ago worried that the corners on a second floor were not stiff enough. But many people run the K-Horns on a first floor, over a cellar. The false corners used by many are about the same in construction as a structural wall of a building. You'd think that any structural wall is stiffer, and more massive, than plywood. Yet the LS, Belle, MCM 1900, and Jubilee use plywood at the back. It is difficult to make generalizations about what might be good or bad about a given set up. My thought is that good room dimensions and a good seal are the first issues of priority. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Dont forget about the horz. piece on the bass bin needs to seal against the wall the same as the tailboard..Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Dont forget about the horz. piece on the bass bin needs to seal against the wall the same as the tailboard..Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdoggy Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Thanks again for the responses and the information. Silly question, but are there any video's, diagrams, pictures etc....that will provide simple tutorials on the functionality of the Khorns. I would really like to learn how the horns uses the walls as an extension. I am certain this would help me understand how the insulation seal and other modifications enhance the Khorn sound. Cheers, close your eyes and enjoy the music. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Good point Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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