Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Dean: "Once you go to digital processing, you mind as well forget about that." Would you please explain 'why' you think the above might be the case? There is nothing to 'forget' that can't be just as quickly 'remembered.' I see no reason why trying something new necessarily equates with accepting the results if they are not satisfactory. It's also not my opinion that digital processing is necessarily a 'bad' or 'negative' thing. May I ask you a question, Dean? If there was something you were very interested doing, but were not sure of whether you would find the experience a positive one, wouldn't it be worth it to you -- just to know one way or the other -- to just try it? I want to try this so I know for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 "Whilst you are about it - add another centre channel for the rear and 2 more speakers mid way between rear and fronts and we may as well double up on the sub. That makes 8.2 unless I lost count. I think I see an SACD player in your future too." Despite your encouraging words, Max, I am just about done with a temporary setup using one rear channel. No, 8.2 looks about right based on your description, but I don't think a center channel will be necessary for the rear. Thanks for taking the time to offer the suggestion, though! Doubling up on the sub is probably not something I will like, but I can give it a shot if you really think it's worthwhile. Or is there the possibility that what I pasted above was not really intended as encouragement and help? Shawn: I've tried the link, but it's not working. I can go about getting there a different way.... Thanks for all your constructive help on this recent discovery. It's been fun so far! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Ok. I've got it! It looks like an extremely flexible and versatile component! I will have to displace this recently built preamp that's been working so well for me -- but that's ok! I am open to change and learning something new. Pretty fascinating looking stuff! I will send you a PM or email soon, Shawn. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Erik, Speaking of PM and email, did you get either of the ones I sent you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Hi, Tom: No! You sent me something? My apologies! Let me go look again to see if there is something there. I sometimes forget to check those, but I don't see that I have any messages. I'll let you know, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Tom: Neither an email nor PM. Please try again and I will respond right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Guy! I just noticed your response above. I'd love to try a La Scala, but just don't have the mean$$$ right now. But wouldn't that be cool, though!? Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Erik, Were you able to get the 'Theory and Design' booklet as well as the owners manual? Let me know if you need any clarification on anything in there. "It looks like an extremely flexible and versatile component" It is, it has a lot of flexibility built into it. "I am open to change and learning something new." Always a good thing. After all there are probably a few old 'hi-fi' guys still listening to mono since 'everyone knows two channel stereo is just a gimmick.' Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Shawn: I will check the other link after dinner is done, and the rest of the family is cozily gathered around the Game Cube and Super Mario. My little brother is a professor at George Mason University, and the only thing he brought with him for Thanksgiving was his video game player! So, when they're involved with hopping around on mushrooms and earning points in all sort of strange ways, I will check out the other literature related to the Lexicon. I'm curious about its linestage specs, too. Are you using something like this in your main system? I can't remember what you said about that, but can go back and reread what you wrote. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Erik, "Are you using something like this in your main system? " Yes, I'm using the latest generation Lexicon processor in my system. My first Lexicon was very similar to the one I'll be lending you. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Erik, I re-sent that stuff. It should show up in your email and PM soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 MONO rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 All this talk of 3-channel stereo is really fascinating, and as an experiment I may try my passive Dynaco QD2 with a spare AR monitor (I know it's no matchup with the Cornwalls, but it'll do for the time being). But since my music room is pretty small (12' x 13.5' x 8') and my listening pretty much done in nearfield, sitting in the sweet spot presents a vivid phantom center channel experience already with just my two Cornwalls. Many songs I play have strong center vocals that sounds convincingly "center stage" to me. So now I'm wondering if the use of the passive Dynaco is even a worthwhile addition to my present system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 What happens to that center channel when you play an album like "Rubber Soul" that has no common L/R signals. Nothing out of the center channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Gary, Interesting question! If you re feeding both left and right signals into the centre in theory all the sound will be there as well as in either the left of the right speaker - should be an interesting effect!!! Erik, Yes - I was taking the mickey a little. It just seemed that you were working your way, one speaker at a time to surround sound ALA SACD / HT. I am trying to understand why I have such antipathy towards this notion. I think it has to do with the fact that this is where I came from and worked down to 2 channel only as the best means of listening to music. So that we have someone going from where I am now, back to where I have come from, fills me with the dread that. there. in a few years, go I. I dont think I could survive reversing my course yet again in the hobby! Not to mention the improving WAF each time a speaker left the building. It would be a much harder mountain to climb the 2nd time around. I'll try to keep my negativity to myself from now on. Experiment away and do report back your results (especially if they are negative - just kidding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 "Once you go to digital processing, you might as well forget about that." You asked me to explain the above comment, but I had, when I said: "So much of our two-channel experience and work involves getting the tone right..." The sound that comes from a good tube amp disappears when you put a solid state preamp or processor in front of it -- the whole thing just goes sterile and two dimensional. "I see no reason why trying something new necessarily equates with accepting the results if they are not satisfactory." True, but multi-channel isn't "new" to most. In fact, most here have either already tried multi-channel and dumped it, or ended up building a second dedicated system for music. I did full blown multi-channel in the 90's, and after a few years of it started moving back to two-channel. I thought it sounded unnatural / artificial -- and I eventually dumped all of it, and put a tube preamp into the system. From there, I ended up here. I figured your DIY boxes would probably leave the tube signature of your system intact, but I think you'll find that not to be the case once you add the processor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Eric, you need to experiment for yourself. I had a big (read expensive) play with multi channel and digital processing. It just got too messy. I had no reference to work from and I got frustrated. Now I'm back to two channel, toying with the idea of testing the multi channel waters again, but I know in my heart I won't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 Jim: I'm not exactly sure what this Dynaco of yours does, but if this is something that you would like to try using the DFH (Dope From Hope!)minibox, I can tell you the parts to order for it, send them to me, and I will build it for you for free. It's very inexpensive and easy to make. Max: You have already done this, and have made the decision that it's not worth it. Allow me to do the same. You can be sure that I will report, as I have already done, one way or the other. I'm am not the type of person that will say what I found is BETTER if it isn't. I did the same thing with my Horus amps. I did a major overhaul in the driver stage of that amp, and at first thought it was for the best. It turned out not to be the case, and was returned, as I had mentioned here, to it's stock configuration. I made some other changes in the output stage and power supply that have remained, but the one I thought was really going to be a leap in improvement turned out not to be. Also: I don't know if you have tried those 6N1Ps I sent to you, but if you have, I hope they are working out alright. Dean: With all due respect, I find the explanation a bit incomplete. Having built probably 10 different tube preamps over as many years, as well as having used several from familiar name brands, I do not share your opinion that using a solid state preamplifier with a tube amp automatically destroys the merit or qualities of a tubed output stage. If that's what you have found, that's just fine -- FOR YOU. I don't agree with you. I do agree that ANY preamp, vacuum tube or solid state, will lend something different to the overall reproduction; and in fact I think, having tried it several times myself, a very agreeable sound can be obtained by combining tube and solid state equipment in different stages of a system. As you have tried surround sound and didn't like it, I find that a good SS preamp can compliment a tube amplifier in a positive way. To make such broadly sweeping statements that an SS preamp ruins the best qualities of a tubed output stage is, in my opinion, not correct -- FOR ME. If you don't care for the coloration, stay away from it. If someone else likes the resulting sound, I think it would be appropriate to respectfully allow them that personal choice. When all this is said and done (which we all know will probably never be the case -- for any of us!), it may be that I find that 3 channels provides the most musical and complete sound. That 3 front speakers sound better to me than two is without question. As far as more than that -- subwoofer and fill from the rear -- I have no idea. It's actually kind of absurd and funny to me that I find myself defending this experiment! How can anyone grow, change, or learn, if they don't find something out for themselves? Moreover, how many more times do I have to ask that question? From a sociological point of view, this place can be pretty interesting... I've got some reading to do on this, so I'm going to go and do that -- as well as complete the remaining connections on the experimental use of an attenuated rear speaker. A musician friend of mine and fellow K-horn owner thinks that his surround system is more lifelike than anything he ever experienced in the past. He said that rear fill provided by two in-ceiling speakers can sound very good. I'm not ready to cut holes up above, but I appreciate his opinion. Another thing to think about edit: Hi, edwin! thanks for responding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Erik, >> "From a sociological point of view, this place can be pretty interesting... " Ain't it the truth though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 ---------------- On 11/27/2004 2:35:00 AM DeanG wrote: True, but multi-channel isn't "new" to most. In fact, most here have either already tried multi-channel and dumped it, or ended up building a second dedicated system for music. I did full blown multi-channel in the 90's, and after a few years of it started moving back to two-channel. I thought it sounded unnatural / artificial -- and I eventually dumped all of it, and put a tube preamp into the system. From there, I ended up here. I figured your DIY boxes would probably leave the tube signature of your system intact, but I think you'll find that not to be the case once you add the processor. ---------------- Those that dumped multi channel for two channel didn't put enought money and effort into their system. It's hard to do it right, because it takes quite a bit of money and time to get it to sound as good as a high dollar two channel system. To simplify it, all it takes is the same speakers all around, and some mega bucks SS amps that can sound better then tubes. Use the same two channel or mono block amps, don't go multi channel amps. Then add a high dollar processor. Do this and you will become spoiled. You will never listen to two channel again. What ever your favorite two channel system is, just quadruple it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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