boomac Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Though I enjoy the dogs barkin once in a while, I dont like it when they start to growl and snap at each other. Especially when its a couple hounds that I happen to like and respect. Only a live performance would be more enjoyable than listening to an Allan Songer recommended & provided LP on Arttos system within his listening haven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Consider me muzzled for now . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 About that vinyl stuff. A friend of my youngest son is attending ETSU (East Tennessee State University) in the music department. It is lovated in Johnson City, TN. Someone at the school decided they should get rid of ALL of the record collection, so they are selling ALL LPs for $.50 each. Includes multiple disc sets. Someone there has no forsight for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 REproduction with accuracy has been my aim ever since. To that end, I recalibrate my ears frequently at live concerts, and urge our clients, factory workers, salespeople, and engineers to do the same. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If it worked for PWK it works for me. I try to listen to an hour of live insruments every 6 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I hear more live music than anyone I know, much of it in SALOONS with yapping drunks, ice machines dropping ice in the middle of a John Heard bass solo, hideous acoustics, etc. I also attend concerts at Disney Hall on a regular basis as well--the room which arguably has the best acoustics in the country. How should I reconcile the two VASTLY different environments when assembling a hi-fi system? Some of the most involving and highly creative musical performances I have ever heard were performed in crappy saloons while many of the most stilted and BORING perfomances I have experienced were within the acoustical perfection of a symphony hall. So what should one do when assembling a "hi-fi?" Attempt to create the lousy acoustics of a saloon or the perfect acoustics of a symphony hall? NEITHER! All I've ever tried to do is make sure that the music coming out of my speakers sounds RIGHT--that a piano sounds like a piano, a tenor like a tenor, etc. I just want to be INVOLVED with the performance and if my "system" gets me there I have achieved my goals. The same goes for EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD. If getting there means you have to carpet your walls and sit your speakers and "listening chair" just so and have 3 or even 5 speakers surrounding you, then BY ALL MEANS GO FOR IT! I know I do a lot of my listening moving standing, swaying, even DANCING around the room getting LOST in the music---MY "sweet spot" in INSIDE MY HEAD, not in some pinpointed position within the confines of a "listening room." MONO RULES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Cant imagine anyone would disagree with that Allan. Well said. You have mail by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Allan, If you haven't heard "Sultan's of Swing", the first Dire Straights hit from their first album, I think you'd enjoy it. It's impossible, of course, for me to anticipate yours or anyone else's reactions to songs I might like, but given some of your thoughts I've read on songs and music you do like, I think you'd really enjoy it. Only album that Mark's brother played on, and the group has a really tight connection on this song. One of those where there isn't a single extra note played - you couldn't edit 5 seconds out of the song without lessing it's meaning. Very deep, too, for rock/pop... Lyrics and Cords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Ray, David Knopfler plays on the second album as well, "Communique." Allan, Good job! You slipped the muzzle in an hour and a quarter. Your attack out of the blue of Artto strikes me as classic sour grapes: "Who *wants* a great sounding room anyway!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I love you, Parrot. Why don't you drop by for a listen some day? I have a feeling I could teach you A LOT . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 ---------------- On 12/3/2004 9:21:08 AM maxg wrote: Cant imagine anyone would disagree with that Allan. ---------------- I sure do. Allan thinks that he should have obnoxious drunks and ice machines in his listening room with atrocious acoustics so that it sounds like a real-life dive. That's absurd. Pretty funny, but absurd all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 ---------------- On 12/3/2004 11:37:14 AM Allan Songer wrote: I love you, Parrot. Why don't you drop by for a listen some day? I have a feeling I could teach you A LOT . . . ---------------- I might have visited, if you hadn't included the "I love you" line. That makes your intentions rather suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 For a bookish little copy editor you show an amazing lack of reading comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Sorry Paul, I was refering to what Allan actually wrote - not what you inferred. And whilst Allan's attack was a little over the top I too have a number of concerns over this perfect room of Artto's. Not to pick the piece apart but I have heard the Decca Maroon cartridge and it does not sound like any other cart I have ever heard, nor indeed any other source. It has very much its own unique sound - which you either love or hate - it is not an inbetween cartridge. To imply that that room makes this sound the same as a CD player stikes me as rather odd. I am not sure a neutral room should make one format indistinguishable from another. Sources do sound different, and as far as I can tell - should. If the room is neutralizing this then it may not be the perfect accoustic environment at all. I wonder if changing speakers would yield similarly similar results. The whole high fidelity bit is somewhat misleading too. Unless one is present at THE actual performance being recorded, in the case of live music, or has access to the master tapes produced from a studio recording session, the only thing a listener has to go on is whether it sounds good to their ears. This gets more complex with master tapes of course - because the question would immediately become - and where did you hear those being played to compare to? I could take this one on endlessly. I am sure Artto has great sound - others have reported it. I am less sure his philosophy on the art of music reproduction is as sound. I guess that is what wound Allan up to write as he did. Finally - putting a fire out rarely involves the use of petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I think we all have you pegged quite well, Allan. You attacked Artto for no reason other than simple jealousy. Or was it because he witnessed first hand what you consider a "Near Mint" record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 bclark... They didn't rebuild the facility. He built a new one somewhere else in London, geared more to symphonies. It has a large studio space. I thought the Sony used 1/2 inch tape? Epsecially since it was compatible with the Studer, which only uses 1/2 inch. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 "we all" Oh little Parrot! You are so quick to speak for others. Perhaps becuase you can't even speak for yourself in your personal life? Or at least thats what I've been told by those who know you well . . . A little man of little substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I will insert into the mix some questions but a comment first. There would have been enough roo for the grroves, so I still wonder why there is a timing difference. Noting George Martin's skills, why are the CD versions of some of the Beatles Albums a) sound like they are running fast, have a number of differences i.e. vocals brought forward, guitar riffs dropped back, etc. when he was "supervising" the remixes for CD. Why are the Hendrix CDs originally released without the Master Tapes, and the Hendrix Family found the Masters and we have Hendrix CDs with the noted Hendrix Family "Seal of Approval" so to speak sticker on those CDs made from the masters. The last one regarding CDs made without the masters puzzles me, but contributes to the fact that some CDs do not sound as good as the Vinyl originals. The same for the Beatles also. We have individual tastes. That IS why we are human. A perfect acoustic room should not alter sound coming from a SOURCE. But given any room, we still have our ears, our minds and our feelings of choice. IF it SOUNDS GOOD to the owner, there is no room for criticisim. There is NO ROOM for one to tell another what to listen to. Suggestions can be made. BUT, the owner can accept or reject any or all suggestions. IF we want to hear the music as it is live, we need to be present. Otherwise we have a chain of Analogue or digital. A caveat to using the word digital. Remember the first tuners with a numeric display instead of the round tuning dial? They were called "digital." But we have the chain that the music must pass through while recording, then again through playback. We ask our systems to reproduce AKG, Beyer, RCA, Shure, Electro-Voice microphones with the information being recorded traveling through various brands, gauges, age and condition of cords to the Mixing Board (what brand) to the Recorder using what brand of tape, under the decision and choice of the Recording Engineer to Mix Down and perhaps another Engineer adding artificial reverb or whatever effects chosen. Also keep in mind the type and brand of instrument, if it is amplified, what type SS or Tubed, what brand, type of speaker, choice of "sound" by the Artist. Then we have qulity of the vinyl or material for CD. With some other variables it is now played back on our systems - whatever they may be. We are asking our systems to reproduce all of the variables of the recording, mixdown, pressing or burning machine quality and material quality. How well is the digital encoded. Then we argue over what is better. We have our ears, mind and wallets to make those decisions. One person that is biased in favor of one does not have the right to tell another which is better. One's ears and mental processing of what is heard does that. Anyone deciding for us is wrong. Any heated argument is wrong. We are adults. We can agree to disagree, then listen to what WE choose - even if the medium is a recorded cylinder on an Edison Home Phonograph. Can we ask questions, disagree, give opinions, try to back up our OPINIONS - yes. But in the end, it's what we hear ourselves that is the telling story. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I liked to see all of you in a bar drinking beers .... now that would be fun to watch.....hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Win, In an interview I read with George Martin, he made the comment that the tapes they sent over to the U.S. for albums were two track tapes. But they weren't stereo. They ewre more or less sub-mixes to two channels. But the engineers over here were told not to touch the masters in any way. So they made them as stereo LPs, where all the vocals and stuff would be on one side and the drums and bass all on the other. The CDs should certainly be able to be longer, given the one hour time frame for them. You could do that on an LP but the quality sure starts to drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Thans Marvel, appreciate that, but it still leaves it open to why the CDs have such a different mix. In some where there is a noticable guitar riff, the guitar is either dropped way back or absent compared to the LPs. Also the point of some of them sounding noticably faster. I had heard that Mr. Martin was in poor condition when the remixes were done. Would that possibly be a reason? Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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