Erik Mandaville Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Maybe some of you remember the Elton John album by the same name! It really doesn't have anything directly to do with the great time I had yesterday, but the sky was in fact very clear, the weather incredible for Houston -- dry, cool, light breeze, and just awesome. We don't get this very often, and it's always a very welcome change to stagnant heat and humidity. I don't know how settlers survived here in the early to mid 1800's without air conditioning! I spent the majority of the morning lugging a pair of La Scalas from one end of town to another. These were very generously offered on loan, and I have one here, while another forum member has the other at his house -- his most incredible house, with a THE most incredible and fine sounding system I have heard to date! His very, very nice wife also made us an amazing lunch with all the fixins for sandwiches one could imagine. We used Mayo rather than Miracle Whip, by the way, and they had wheat, while I had to bring my own because I can't eat wheat, barley, rye, etc. Anyway, I pulled up to the wrong house because I got 'right' and 'left' mixed up, but born2rock was laughing and yelling at me from across the street. "Erik! we're over here!" The day was just tons of fun, and I just want to mention a bottom line to save you all from more unrelated details. This system sounded like pure music and acoustic space to me. Truly and honestly the most fantastic and realistic illusion of real music I have ever heard. You may have already guess that it is 100% surround sound system, consisting of very, very good components -- all Klipsch Heritage -- K-horns for the mains, and a full compliment of Heresies (all mint condition black!) and a subwoofer. I will say without the slightest reservation or hesitation that I will one day have a good subwoofer as part of our system. No doubt about it whatsoever. It provided a foundation that was simply unmatched by the K-horns alone, however it absolutely could be turned up too loud. At the right volume level, I loved it. We often seem to have difficulty understanding or accepting individual the fact that people have differing opinions in terms of what makes good sound, and I am thus not saying that to not use a good subwoofer with Klipschorns is a mistake. I'm saying I like the way it sounds, and that I would like to get one for myself -- and that's all. If I'm told that I am deaf or don't know what good sound is, than please allow me to remain ignorant. I know what I like, and I sure as heck liked what I heard yesterday! L-pads were installed in the networks, and they worked just fine, too! It's really a great way to fine tune the midrange output, and much easier than messing around with various combinations of output taps on autoformers. One can listen while the other turns the volume up or down to find the best blend. Very easy and effective, and we heard no compromise in sound. If it measured poorly, that's Ok, because I don't listen to a scope attached to my ears. I want to be able to forget about the music machines (whether tube or SS -- I could care less if it sounds RIGHT!) and just enjoy being bathed in sound. It was fantastic fun!!! Thanks to 'K' too, for allowing me to borrow his SUV (in addition to the La Scalas) to transport them. That was going above and beyond IMO, and to his very nice wife for making Marie and me a home-cooked meal when Marie was home recovering from surgery. This forum has helped me meet some really fine people who have become good friends. Reports on the new La Scala center channel will be here soon! Erik (I'm typing very fast, so please excuse spellling airrirz!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Think I know why I am thinking of that 'Empty Sky' album (one of his very best, IMO!): I think it has to do with seeking and finding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 And! The main amplifier for this system was the Baldwin organ amp I mentioned some weeks ago. I am floored by it's performance, and it cost $250. Maybe we can get a pic of it up here. A very rare find, for sure! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Thanks for the post. I always enjoy reading of other's "transcendent" music experiences. BTW, what kind of room is this rig in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Erick, Thanks for the review. Any Pictures taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Hello everyone. YESTERDAY was magic ! First,I want to thank Erik for all his kind words about my audio system. (2 channel,3 channel and 6.1 surround) We had the best time demoing my equipment and I want to truly thank ERIK for his company.(the perfect guest) I would be honored to place some pictures of my "baby's" in the forum. What do you want foto's of ?? (please check my profile if you are curious what I am using) I will definitely like to place some pics of the rare Balwin amp I purchased from Audiogon. (Thanx to FLYNN for finding it) ***As far as those L-Pads ......they really do the trick. Erik whipped those things into position in minutes on my AK-3 crossovers. Now I have total control of the K-Horns squawkers w/ an easy turn of the knob. ERIK you are the BEST and are welcomed at my house anytime !!!!!!!! (Pic's to follow) ~ rock on ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 This is exactly the reason why I like this forum so much...the shared experiences, making new friends, listening to different varieties of audio/HT systems through our Klipsch horn speakers, and just having fun! After all, this is what this hobby's all about. I'm intrigued by the Baldwin organ amp...I hear tell of many organ tube amps from Hammond, Baldwin, Allen, and Conn being used for stereo use. If they're good enough to produce the wide frequency response of an electronic organ, then they gotta be good enough for musical reproduction as well! Can't wait to see some pics...as well as Erik's new La Scala. The reviews should be quite interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I would be honored to place some pictures of my "baby's" in the forum. What do you want foto's of ?? (please check my profile if you are curious what I am using) I will definitely like to place some pics of the rare Balwin amp I purchased from Audiogon. (Thanx to FLYNN for finding it) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It was kind of an intuition thing on the Baldwin amp. 2 things stood out. 1. THe seller apeared to update these old amps for fun and only kept them around 6-9 months before he completed the next project. 2. Before the mass of electonic AV sources became part of our lives in the last 30+ years people with the means bought very nice organs and pianos as thier music source in the home. I figured the Baldwin should be a nice design with above average components. I am glad it worked so well for "Born". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 "I'm intrigued by the Baldwin organ amp...I hear tell of many organ tube amps from Hammond, Baldwin, Allen, and Conn being used for stereo use. If they're good enough to produce the wide frequency response of an electronic organ, then they gotta be good enough for musical reproduction as well!" I'm gonna find out. I just adopted a pair of Lowery 6550 PP organ amps. Hopefully, the secondary tap/taps aren't too high a impedance with the output transformers, like 16 ohms or something. Something to keep in mind with organ amps. This is gonna be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 OK. Here is the Baldwin amp everyone is asking about ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Was that Balwin organ amp originally a stereo amp? What are the output transformers from? Erik probably explains all that in the past posts.... That amp is cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Looks to be stereo (to my untrained eyes); there's some serious iron there! Dual rectified as well(?). Are the knobs for hum and balance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Mike/Jim/Craig: The Baldwin was not a stereo amplifier. It did have two input and output stages, as can be seen in the fact that there are two output transformers. The amp was originally designed more as a mono amplifier with two 'frequency specific' stages. That is, one section was dedicated to HF and midrange, with the other devoted to the bass -- similar in certain respects to bi-amping with a line-level crossover BEFORE the amplifiers. The person who had the amp before (if he is the person who also did the work), re-worked the design into a stereo amplifier, so that each channel would have the same comprehensive or 'full' frequency response. Having not been able to find a schematic for it, it looks to be more of a parallel rather than push-pull design. Other than to resolder several connections and tighten down the twist-lock sections on the filter capacitors, I didn't do anything to the amplifier. There was a very low level hum when I first had it here, which went away after the filter caps were snugged down (thus more firmly grounded) against the chassis. I tested all the tubes, one of which was found to be nearly dead, and that was it. We ordered a new compliment of 6L6s, and it works and sounds far better than one would expect for an amp costing only $250. I will say that I think it is honestly on par with my own amps, which cost 10 times as much. It is also incredibly SILENT! The knobs on top are input level controls. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Forgot to mention this: This Baldwin piece is not going to win a fashion show award. It couldn't be more straight forward and function, but it is truly a superb amplifier. It's an example of the fact that we sometimes put greater emphasis on the cosmetic aspect of a component, which does nothing for the performance but adds significantly to cost. Mike: Your project looks good! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 When I bought this Baldwin 6L6 Stereo amp off Audiogon for $250 , I asked the seller to send it directly to ERIK since I hadn't a clue how to inspect nor test a tube amp. We decided to replace the 6L6 tubes w/ 4 new tubes from the tube depot.com and it has worked like a gem. "Not bad for a first tube amp", erik agrees !! ERIK was heaven sent and I am forever greatful for his help and his friendship. ~Thank You ERIK ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 "The amp was originally designed more as a mono amplifier with two 'frequency specific' stages. That is, one section was dedicated to HF and midrange, with the other devoted to the bass" Ok. It was amp in a organ tone cabinet. My local friend has a bunch of Hammond tone cabinets, a couple still have the amps. They have separate PS chassis's. Can't recall the output tubes, I do recall the woofer transformers being real beefy. We did converse and ponder about thoughts of using a pair of them in a stereo configuration, bi-amping each side. The only issue I remember was that there is just a HF and LF output transformer. It probably wouldn't matter, the output transformers should roll-off and blend for full-bandwidth? Then the OPT's could be pretty bandwidth limited, even at the frequencies they were designed for. A coat of paint on the stereo Baldwin amp, a fancy wood faceplate, and it would look pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks for the post, Eric. Born2RockU. You've turned out to be a Klipsch Legend!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Craig's system sounded incredible. Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' CD (taken directly from the master tape)that was almost eerie. Pink Floyd can be kind of eerie (in a good way -- it/they were a staple diet for me back in the day!) anyway, but this all Klipsch Heritage, fully-surround system transported me from a domestic living room and into an enormous 'acoustic space.' With all tile floors, the room tended to be on the 'live' side, which is something I have always preferred to 'over damped.' Since I have been getting a very enjoyable 'test sample' of what well done surround sound can be like -- with just three front channels -- I was hugely impressed with what I heard. What was so strange was that every single speaker seemed to simply vanish. There wasn't even the slightest hint of any particular channel drawing attention to itself, and what was left was just a very large wash of detailed, incredibly three dimensional sound. Craig's big subwoofer was great in his large space, but I think to use a similar one here would be overpowering. I liked the earthy foundation it provided, but think something a little more modest in terms of output and size will work better for us. The Klipsch minibox (remember, PWK thought very highly of 3 front channels!)and Shawn's Lexicon have drastically and quickly changed what I know about listening to and enjoying music at home. It's absolutely subjective, and seamless surround sound may of course not be for everyone -- but I have never been so thrilled by the sound of my system. I was too tired at the end of the weekend to get a rear channel going, but have spent time thinking about the best way to do it. The same is true for two side channels, which are going to be more difficult to do because of our room arrangement. I will get something worked out, though, since I want to try every feature of the Lexicon that I can while it's still here. I asked Shawn if he would trade it for a nice new set of wooden cooking spoons -- or maybe a good quality garlic press, and he very politely declined. But he did say he might have been willing to consider the garlic press if they didn't already have one! With Mark's Peach and now the Lexicon, I have never had so much fun listening! That these gentleman have so willingly sent out their valuable equipment to share is, well, just something I appreciate very much! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Erik, " the room tended to be on the 'live' side, which is something I have always preferred to 'over damped.'" You may or may not change your mind about that with surround. For 2 channel listening having a live room (at least the back half) helps to give a little life back into the recording by having reflections from all around your room attempting to randomly fill in the sound around you. A very dead room and 2 channel listening can be fatiguing and flat sounding. With surround the approach can be different. Since you are reproducing the recordings 'space' from your side and rear speakers you don't need those random reflections from the room to the same degree to give the recording life. IME the less you hear of the room in surround the more of the recordings space and acoustic queues like that that you hear. Having a little bit of a reflection/diffusion in the rear can help to make the surround seamless though. "What was so strange was that every single speaker seemed to simply vanish. There wasn't even the slightest hint of any particular channel drawing attention to itself, and what was left was just a very large wash of detailed, incredibly three dimensional sound." That is what it it supposed to do for you. Give you this very coherent 'big picture' of the event. The surrounds can also really make the front soundstage even more 3D. You can tell if surround is working for you by just listening to it from 15 minutes or so then switching to 2 channel and watching your reaction to the sound. To me the soundfield just collapses from this very immersive event to a very artificial sounding facade of the music. ", since I want to try every feature of the Lexicon that I can while it's still here." Take your time and enjoy it. If you want a little bit easier thing to then wiring up new speakers is to try your hand at calibrating Panorama and then giving it a listen.Then when you get enough free time for the surrounds give that a try. Keep having fun, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ---------------- On 12/12/2004 5:38:22 PM Born2RockU wrote: OK. Here is the Baldwin amp everyone is asking about ! ---------------- What are the 9 pin input tubes on this amp ? Dual 5U4 rectifiers and beefy Iron nice ....... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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