JJkizak Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 What possibly could be the difference in sonic quality between a $1500 dollar Denon DVD player and a $150 dollar Denon player? I fear not much. And they are solid state so what does that do to the all tube setup? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 there will be a prett big difference, mostly in the DAC's and the quailty of the parts inside ie caps and transistors, but the biggest differenc and most important difference is the quality of the transporter, dvd players that cost less than 200 have really cheap transporters in them ad tend to only last around 3 years, a nicer dvd player around 400 to 500 dollars will have a much better transporter a faster processor and better DAC's in them, anyways thats my 2 cents, you don't have to spend over a grand to get a great dvd player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Yeah, I would think the law of diminishing returns would kick in long before $3500 for the new Denon 5910. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 From the audio standpoint there will be a BIG difference,lesser in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 there will be a big difference in video quality too above the 200 dollar range because there are no other companies out there that use the farujdia chips in them for under 200.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 What gets me is buying a new one every year to keep up with the technology. First it was progressive, then upconvert, then playing all formats, then HD-DVD, then Blue-ray HD dvd, then HD-2K DVD, then HD-4K DVD, then HD-6K DVD, then HD-8K DVD, Then Dolby, then DTS, then THX, etc. Thats about 30 grand just in DVD upgrades. I would sure like to see some accurate evaluations performed on these things kind of like Consumers Reports but I don't think people can afford to buy them just to test them out. I know how all of the 200 dollar ones work but what about the 1500 dollar ones. Then you buy an 800 dollar unit and two years later it isn't worth throwing in the trash. I'm going on my 3rd DVD player in 3 years. I end up giving them away to my family. K-horns deserve better than this. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 if your player is still wroking well, I would hold off until you can just buy a dvd player that is HD blu-ray what have you. you make a valid point, but somewhere along the line you just have to settle for something you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 One thing I would like to point out is todays $150 players were yesterdays $600 players. So the components in todays $800 players will be in tomarrows $200 units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I just wanted to point out that you are not going to get near audiophile quality at 200 bucks new.The $200 units may do alot but one thing for sure is they use cheaper components inside and sacrifice alot to get it in your house for 200 bucks. On the other hand if anyone finds a unit for $200 that looks like a $1k inside and weighs 20 lbs,please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 I am also curious if a value can be placed on the difference in sound quality, for instance: 1%,.01%, .001%, .0001%, .00001% etc. and can I hear the difference between .001% and .0001%? I wonder. I also wonder about tubes as I have vast experience in tubes. I had a Fisher, Heathkit with KT88's and they both were very muddy. I went to the solid state Denon and the mud went away. The difference was the transient response, rounded square waves in the tube models and nice crisp square waves in the solid state models. Also no hum and no hiss. Now everybody here is selling their grandmother to get tube amps & preamps. What am I missing here? I never had to replace transisters due to wearing out but once a year it was all new tubes to bring everything back into spec. To due that now would cost me thousands per year. Tubes, no matter what brand, slowly loose their conductance and values, and that's a fact. That means every day you crank them babies up the performance is slightly degraded. How can you live like that? Well today I have a 30 watt amp and tomorrow I have a 29.95 watt amp. and the next day 29.945 watt amp. What about your sub woofer? does it have tube amps? what about the DVD player?What about the tuner? What about your Toslink circuits? What about your HDTV? Why aren't their tubes in the Mics? All of your CD's, DVD's, and tapes are recorded with solid state equipment. How do you get around that? I do know tubes and I can tell you that I have replaced more 12AX7's than you can imagine and that's when they made good ones. In my days a 6L6 was a crap tube used in cheap amps. I replaced KT66 and KT88's once a year and sometimes they wouldn't last that long because of gas. The tube amps always had problems going in hyper-oscillation roasting the components with the slightest speaker imperfection and mismatch. Never could get rid of the hum and hiss at max volume levels. But I do like old cars, especially L88 Corvettes. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 4:05:48 PM gcoker wrote: One thing I would like to point out is todays $150 players were yesterdays $600 players. So the components in todays $800 players will be in tomarrows $200 units. ---------------- You seem to have technological advances confused with build quality. Yesterday's low-end progressive scan DVD players were $300 - and they were built no better than their $100 standard counterparts. Today's low-end prog-scan DVD players are $100 and they are built no better than their $40 standard counterparts. Please do not confuse technology with build quality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARPRINCE Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/16/2005 7:30:13 PM Gramas701 wrote: if your player is still wroking well, I would hold off until you can just buy a dvd player that is HD blu-ray what have you. you make a valid point, but somewhere along the line you just have to settle for something you like ---------------- I agree! Wait for the PlayStation 3 (blue ray)!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/16/2005 7:30:13 PM Gramas701 wrote: if your player is still wroking well, I would hold off until you can just buy a dvd player that is HD blu-ray what have you. you make a valid point, but somewhere along the line you just have to settle for something you like ---------------- That's excellent, common-sense advice. Sometimes we tech geeks get paralyzed by the fear of obsolescence. At some point, though, whatever we get will become outmoded. We just have to accept that, buy something we can enjoy while we have it, and replace it when it reaches end-of-life or we can sell it to get the latest greatest thing. In my case I was intrigued by upscaling but couldn't locate an upscaling player in my price range that didn't have playback problems that I won't tolerate. I've decided I want better firmware playing my disks at 480p instead of more marginal firmware playing them at 1080i. There is almost always a compromise to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 10:16:49 PM Griffinator wrote: You seem to have technological advances confused with build quality. Yesterday's low-end progressive scan DVD players were $300 - and they were built no better than their $100 standard counterparts. Today's low-end prog-scan DVD players are $100 and they are built no better than their $40 standard counterparts. Please do not confuse technology with build quality... ---------------- Exactly, but it still does not change the fact that players today were triple what they charge back then. Yes the build quality in expensive players are better (they better be) but you are paying for some of the latest technology that will make there way down in to tomarrows players. I do think there is a point of diminishing return on players. Giff, I'm sure you have had a change to compare the 150 players to the 1,500 players on the same display. Is there any noticable difference between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Go check these units out. Get what you like. That applies to HT and 2 channel (many here, if not most, have seperate set-ups and those who favor tubes for music generally keep them in the 2 channel system). Tubes v. Solid State is pretty well beat to death. Those who like the sound of tubes generally aren't put off by the fact that tubes wear out. Hell, I wear out a little every day, but I keep getting up. With respect to DVD players, Khorns are probably some of the best speakers for illustrating the differences in DAC and transport quality. Yes, there is an audible difference. How much? That's for you to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Here's my experience with DVD upgrades: Playstation 2 to Sony DVP 9000ES = Big difference in sound AND picture. SOny DVP 9000ES to Denon 2900 = Big improvement in sound and only marginal picture improvement (no "real world" difference. In most cases I would have to rely on the Secrets HT HiFi report to help me look for improvements.) Denon 2900 to Denon 2900 with outboard ISCAN HD video processor = VERY large improvement in picture quality. I'm done until HDDVD (or Blu-Ray). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/18/2005 2:04:17 PM gcoker wrote: Exactly, but it still does not change the fact that players today were triple what they charge back then. Yes the build quality in expensive players are better (they better be) but you are paying for some of the latest technology that will make there way down in to tomarrows players. I do think there is a point of diminishing return on players. Giff, I'm sure you have had a change to compare the 150 players to the 1,500 players on the same display. Is there any noticable difference between them. ---------------- 2 points on my response: 1) The reason players today are a third the cost of the same players when the technology was new is because of profiteering. Profiteering only happens in the lower tier. You cannot buy, for $300, a player with the same build quality of a $900 player that came out three years ago. You can only buy a $900 player with the same build quality and more features. You are probably not aware of the fact that I carry the most expensive players on the market (Bel Canto Player, $9500) and the cheapest (LG, $50-100) in my retail lineup. I know the difference between technology advances and build quality. 2) Yes, I have seen the difference between an extremely high-quality DVD player on a high-quality screen and a throwaway on the same screen. No, the difference was not noticable. Why? Because they were both progressive scan, and were therefore being upsampled again at the display. However, the biggest differences between such units were in the durability (the tall dollar unit lasts much the way a tall dollar VCR lasted, while the throwaway was exactly that) and the audio quality (the tall dollar unit, with its superior transports and DAC's easily outperformed the throwaway) So the decision one must make, really, is whether to sacrifice audio quality in order to save money and keep up with technology over the long haul. You can buy a lot of $80 DVD players over the course of the 10 years that a quality-built $1000 DVD player will last. You'll need to, unfortunately, just to replace the failures. Unlike a VCR, a cheap DVD player deteriorates rapidly - you won't know you bought a bum until 6-8 months in, long after the labor warranty (90 days on nearly every sub-$200 player out there) has expired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYRO Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Well put Grif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqlla Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Just as a heads up. My friend and I did a direct comparison between his Zenith DVB318 and my Kenwood Sovereign DV-5700 DVD player. The Sovereign had an $1100 and the Zenith has a retail of $300. In 480p mode, the Sovereign slightly edged the Zenith. THe kenwood had a more natural color, and the Color gradiation was much more smooth. 1080i upconversion of the Zenith was superior to the kenwoods 480p =( But the audio quality of the kenwood was far superior to the Zenith. The zenith seemed to miss mid-bass, and the highs seemed very muted. The Highs were more pronounced and realistic on the kenwood. The differences were very pronounced listening to Sarah Mclaughlin - The afterglow live 5.1. Watching Spiderman2 superbit and troy, the sound differences were minimal. Probably, if you have an HTIB or only watched movies you would not notice the diff in sound quality. If you want audio quality, ecost has the kenwood 5700 refurb for pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 If you want audio quality, ecost has the kenwood 5700 refurb for pretty cheap. $130! And it retailed for $1100? Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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