Kain Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Now that many people have told me that your surround speakers SHOULD be placed on the side walls facing each other, I have another question: When surround effects come in, won't it sound a bit weird that the rear sounds are coming from the sides? And what about the people sitting in FRONT of the side surrounds, will it sound okay for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewzter Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Kain, with speakers that are made for being on the side, it will not sound weird. It will sound great. You and your listeners will be enveloped with the sound. By "speakers that are made for being on the side," I mean DIPOLE. By having two opposed driver planes, with the opposed drivers working out of phase (as one driver goes out the other goes in), sound is radiated back towards the back wall, front towards the front wall, and off the ceiling, creating a diffuse, enveloping ambience. This is how theater houses are built (although their speakers are monopole - direct radiators, you'll notice they've got 6-10 of them on either side of the room), and the sound is very natural, like you're really THERE (wherever the movie is). I particularly like the design of my Polk RT f/x's. They are trapezoidal, with the drivers angled slightly up towards the ceiling to create even more of a radiating effect. They also have a switch to switch them between dipole or bipole, depending on where they're mounted and what sounds better... I found 2 very informative sites: The first one, Audiovideo101 - Definition of dipolar , is a straight-forward definition of this kind of speaker. The second, Surround Speaker Configuration Wars , is an excellent in-depth explanation of surround sound and how different speakers, whether dipole or monopole, handle it. Hope this helps. ------------------ Front: dbx Soundfield V -5-way w/15" woofers Center: KLF C7 Rear Surround: Polk RT f/x bipole/dipole Amp: Yamaha RX-V990 100x3; 25x2 DVD: Yamaha DVD S795 (built-in DD Processor) CD: Yamaha CDC 575 5-Disc VCR: Toshiba M752 6-head TV: Mitsubishi 40" Tube DirecTV Sony Playstation connected to V990 for awesome gaming picture & sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 As with most things audio, there are a variety of opinions on which type of speaker sounds best as a surround. My RS-3's, with its combination of direct and indirect radiation, mounted just to the rear and to the side of the listening position, do the best job of any speaker I have tried thus far, im my room. Also, even in a home theater environment, your system will be set up to sound best in a "sweet spot" of the listening area. This spot is generally larger than that for stereo only listening, but exists none the less. Therfore, no matter what type of speaker you use, or where you place them, people not in the "sweet spot" will not get the best your set up has to offer. I hope this helps. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted August 22, 2001 Author Share Posted August 22, 2001 Okay, thanks guys. But if surround speakers are meant to be on the side walls facing each other, then why do some people have them on the rear walls facing towards the main speakers? I guess it is just preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 "Okay, thanks guys. But if surround speakers are meant to be on the side walls facing each other, then why do some people have them on the rear walls facing towards the main speakers? I guess it is just preference?" I think it's more a matter of ignorance, and little choice with room considerations. After all, the "high-end" audio store here in town has their RS-3s on the back wall, too. They don't even know better. therefore, their customers will likely follow suit. T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted August 22, 2001 Author Share Posted August 22, 2001 Thanks again. But, should I place the surrounds in the same "line" as my couch? How high should they be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewzter Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I think the 'professional' recommendation is: 5-7 feet from floor to bottom of speaker, slightly behind listening position. As far as the "back wall" goes, if you notice on that "surround speaker config wars" page, the only sounds that are specifically recorded to come from the back wall are the THX EX ones (and DD 6.1?) which require a source recorded in that format. Regular 5.1 surround is meant to come from the side, as in a regular theater house. ------------------ Front: dbx Soundfield V -5-way w/15" woofers Center: KLF C7 Rear Surround: Polk RT f/x bipole/dipole Amp: Yamaha RX-V990 100x3; 25x2 DVD: Yamaha DVD S795 (built-in DD Processor) CD: Yamaha CDC 575 5-Disc VCR: Toshiba M752 6-head TV: Mitsubishi 40" Tube DirecTV Sony Playstation connected to V990 for awesome gaming picture & sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Our current WDST surround speakers (SS.5, SS-1, RS-3 and RS-7) are designed to work well on the back wall if side mounting is not feasible. That's why you see some dealers with them "on the rear." PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 One of the principle advantages of Klipsch's unique Wide-Dispersion Surround Technology is greater placement flexibility.Due to the full 180 degree coverage pattern,you can place speakers on the rear wall,side walls or even the ceiling.The most common placement is on the side walls,adjacent to or behind the listening/viewing area,or on the rear wall facing the front of the room. Taken from Klipsch WDST speaker owners manual.Now we are all wiser. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I think part of the problem is vocabulary and misplaced goals left over from the "Quad" era. At that time the goal seemed to be sound from all around, and specifically from the four corners. This never really worked out for several reasons. One was that the encoding systems of the day were primitive. But also, our experience of sound seems to be based more of front and "ambient" rather than front and back. Listen to real sound in most locatations, we hear what is before us with accurate placement. Most of the rest like hall ambiance, crowds, rain, birds, are usually not detected from being specifically behind. Rather, not specifically placed at all. Hence ambiant. Of course there are exceptions. However, rear speaker placement can lead to the perception that ambient sounds are behind, rather than everywhere. The ITU and most HT sites recommend surround speaker at 90 degrees, plus or minus 10 degrees. Of course the placement of the listening position can lead to ambiguities of what is being suggested. We're often on a sofa located against the wall opposite the mains. Therefore the surrounds are at the back corner of the room, AND also 100 degrees off axis. But this is not to say they are where they are because they're "rear". As implied the good Phil H., sometimes you're forced to place the surrounds on the back wall just because of the room. It can work well. However, I think the lesson is not that surrounds should be 90 degrees plus 45 degrees = 135 degrees from staight ahead. Just that the wide dispursion allows flexibility in placement. Nothing about surround speaker placement is written in stone. Experimentation is necessary for your situation. Regards, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 23, 2001 Share Posted August 23, 2001 Gil is exactly right.Sometimes a person has no choice as far as side placement goes and must place the surrounds to the rear.The coverage pattern of the WDST surrounds will compensate for rear placement,somewhat. When placed on rear walls the speakers should not be placed near corners. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted August 23, 2001 Share Posted August 23, 2001 Speaker placement is an experimental process since the characteristics of speakers and the acoustical properties vary over such a wide range. Its good to start with the manufacturers recommendations along with material like that provided in the above links. Gil is right; rear placement was a quad requirement. I would add to that that many DSP modes work best with rear placement, High side placement is really a movie thing and if you have 6,1 you need the back walls for the rear channel. I have the LaScalas stacked with the top one slightly to the rear of my listening position and angled forward. The bottom Scalas fire backwards and bounce off the rear wall. I had to experiment a lot before I came up with this arrangement. While my Heritage system is best for musicals and concert DVDs, the THX is really better for all other DVDs. . I have my Klipsch Heritage system set up so I can use either the side LaScalas or the rear firing ones in any of my DSP modes More and more, however, for most music I am just using the Klipschorns in stereo. They create their own magic! HT-1 Klipsch Heritage (music oriented) Klipschorns w/ ALK crossover upgrades 4 Klipsch LaScalas (surround & rears) Heresy components in custom cabinet /monitor stand (center) Panasonic 32 Monitor W/ component video input 3 Sony CX400 CD changers Sony CX-200 CD Changer MSB Technology Digital Director w/ jitter reduction Nirvis DXS digital controller (auto selection of whatever changer is playing) Nirvis Slink-e computer interface (downloads cd info, programs & controls changers). Nirvis CDJ (CD Jukebox Software) Monster 5000 Power Center (serves HT-2 also) Sony Viao Laptop Computer Sony S530D DVD Player Sony 798HF VCR Sony XA1ES CD player Sherwood HX-PRO dual cassette deck Dynaco PAS4 stereo preamp W/ Tesla Tube upgrades (also outputs to HT2) Technics SL3300 DD Turntable w/ Shure cartridges Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver Perpetual Technologies P1A Digital Correction Engine (jitter reduction, 16 to 24 bit conversion, future speaker frequency correction, and room acoustic correction ) Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC ( plus 44.1k to 96k CD upsampling) Klipsch KSW-15 sub (for DVD LFEs ) Klipsch LF-10 sub Phillips Pronto TS2000 Programmable Remote Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal X10 computerized lighting controls Radio Shack Wireless Remote Control Extender HT#2 Klipsch THX (movie oriented) 4 Klipsch KT-LCR THX Speakers 4 Klipsch RS-3s (side & rear surround) 2 Klipsch KT-DS THX Surrounds 10 Linaem Tweeters Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver/Preamp Sony X111 ES CD Player Sony 775HF VCR Sony STR-G3 (supplemental amplification for extra speakers) Toshiba 61 High Definition TV Sony NS700 Progressive Scan DVD Toshiba 4205 DVD/ CD Changer Klipsch SW-12II Sub Klipsch LF-10 sub Sony AV2100 remote Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal X10 Computerized Lighting Vibrapods (vibration isolation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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