imperfectcircle25 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I am thinking of upgrading my RF-3's to some RF-7's. I feel the RF-3's are the week link my system and I think the RF-7's will solve this. What can I expect from the RF-7's compared to the RF-3's?? The rest of my system is very good and would probably be good enough to drive even higher end speakers than the Klipsch's, but I listen mainly to rock and I find Klipsch to be best with rock music. Just curious in what ways he RF-7's are better than the 3's?? Thanks Ah! Super Tjoeb 4000/upsampled w/Seimens 7308 Exposure XV integrated amp Klipsch RF-3 w/upgraded xovers Auricaps and Mills resistors Straightwire Serenade interconnect Music & Sound Black speaker cables double bi-wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 You should expect the fulfillment of everything you expect from a move like that. It's bigger and badder, and you get what comes along with that: higher sensitivity, lower distortion, more LF extension, better dynamics, and much better imaging. It's tight, fast, and mean - and the RF-3 is but a shadow. I see you upgraded your networks, that's good, and something you'll want to do again after you get the 7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Yes I upgraded all the Caps with Auricaps and the resistor to a mills. It definitly gave me a sweeter high end. I see that you do mods to the RF-7's Xovers. Can you tell me a little about what you do and how much it cost?? So the RF-7's are far better than the RF-3's?? Will my current system be up to the job of driving the 7's?? I was also thinking of possibly trying out a tube integrated(Manley Stingray) in place of my Exposure XV integrated to see how I like tubes. Thanks frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I did the 3 series to 7 series upgrade several years ago and the differences are as large as Dean mentions. Just be prepared to feed the RF7s a healthy diet. I found that the 7s revealed every fault in my electronics chain. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 ---------------- On 5/8/2005 3:40:05 PM DeanG wrote: I see you upgraded your networks, that's good, and something you'll want to do again after you get the 7's. ---------------- That's being a bit presumptuous isn't it? No offense Dean, but your crossovers are not critical to the RF7 for good sound. A nice option for some... yes... necessary for all... no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 "...your crossovers are not critical to the RF7 for good sound." Technically speaking, they're not "my" crossovers -- they are Klipsch networks built back up with better parts. The only thing actually "modded" is the HF section, where I knock the value of one resistor down a quarter of an ohm. At any rate, I agree with your statement, but would like to point out that there are varying degrees of "goodness", and those that have followed through with this know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 ---------------- On 5/8/2005 11:48:01 PM jpm wrote: That's being a bit presumptuous isn't it? No offense Dean, but your crossovers are not critical to the RF7 for good sound. A nice option for some... yes... necessary for all... no ---------------- jpm I agree that upgraded crossovers are not critical to the RF7 sounding good. It's just some of us want them to sound the best they can. I was as skeptical as you until yesterday when I installed crossovers that DeanG had preped for me in my RF7s and RC7. The results were well worth the effort and expense. Highs are now much more liquid. The small graininess I had attributed to either my Rotel gear or my ICs is now gone and the bottom has taken on a new fullness. One aspect of performance I am surprised at is soundstage. It appears to have gotten wider, yet shallower at the same time. Perhaps this is something that will change over time and break-in. DeanG is just a facilitator, he's not really pushing his product, just the policy. If you ask him, he'll give you complete instructions on how to DIY. How much more magnanimous can one get? In my case I just chose to have him do it for me. I guess that is just one of the drawbacks not having sufficient time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 Do you guys think my current system is up to the task of the RF-7's? I tend to think that my amp and source are at least on the same level of the Klipschs. I use an Ah! Tjoeb 4000/upsampled/NOS Seimens 7308, Exposure XV integrated amp, Straightwire Serenade interconnect, Music and Sound Black speaker cables. I may try a manley Stingray integrated in the near future to see how I like tubes with the system. But i have been very happy with my system with the RF-3's and have never had aproblem with brightness or harshness at all that some people complain about. i think the problem is that people use cheap recievers and dvd player with there Klipschs and then comlain they sound harsh and bright. My experience is that DVD players and recievers kinda suck for playing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The RF7s have a nasty dip in impedance around the woofers resonant frequency that takes the speaker as low as 2.8 ohms. Some amps, even some very good ones can't handle that in stride without becoming less than perfectly stable. Your amp may or may not be a problem, and I wasn't implying that it was. I was just suggesting you be careful. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 DeanG, Not trying to steal this thread, but my question is: If this upgrade -improves the quality , why hasn't klipsch changed there design to incorporate this into their speakers?...........(have you done a Patient on your crossover design?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Bill, Because it adds to the cost of the speaker. It's a case of getting an acceptable level of performance for a given cost/price point. Just like the Heritage.....many are finding they can get more out of their speakers with better quality parts in the networks - even without modification of the network itself. Klipsch drivers are really good - but the networks almost always seem to benefit when fitted with better parts. I've heard Dean's handiwork - and it does make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Nasty Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Hi everybody, I am very in interested in those cross-overs stuffs, how do we do them, do i have to open then Rf 7 and replace the original ones? Can someone explain how to do them, what do we need and what parts needed? Where to get them from too. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Mine are the old Kg.4.2's not the 7's but I would imagine about the same for removal/install. If you can handle a screwdriver without hurting yourself...not a problem. When you get serious about it just contact Dean G. here at the forum, his Avatar is the locomotive & quite easy to find. Read some previous posts, many out there with info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 "If this upgrade improves the quality, why hasn't klipsch changed their design to incorporate this into their speakers." Audible Nector pretty much nailed it. Engineering is usually at the mercy of the marketing department. So yeah, total cost and price points come into play here. Even if this is not the case, consider that engineers typically live and die by the numbers, and most I have talked with believe that things that measure the same, sound the same. My contention is that all that can be heard or perceived, cannot yet be measured. Average Joe isn't looking for, or concerned with the level of performance that a relatively small proportion of others are. There is no point in catering to a minority lunatic fringe. Patent? On what? There's not an original thought in my head! Incidently, the parts Klipsch uses are fine, and there's nothing "wrong" with them -- they just don't sound as good as some other parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Dean, You nailed it perfectly, even the part about no original thoughts in your head. Bill PS: But you do nice work as you sniff all that solder. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I'll play the devil's advocate. The Ref 7 in the right environment sound just fine for 99% of us as is from the factory. The thing that bothers me about all this crossover talk is that a lot of people think they have to have it done to cure some flaw in the factory design. That's just not the case. I liken it to owning a Porsche with a stick or an automatic trans. Pick your poison and be happy. I think Dean knows what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 jpm, I like your auto analogy, but with a modification. An improved crossover is like a better set of tires. Tires make a major difference, but different brands work anywhere from ok to great. Don't knock the crossover mod until you have heard it. It makes a very good speaker better. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 OK, I like your analogy too. I'd love to hear them sometime. I just hope some more impressionable folks with not a lot of extra cash think they have to have Dean's $400 mod to make their new 7's sound right. Especially those that get taken in by the snakeoil types with their $850 wooden volume knobs and crap like that. Now DeanG ain't no snakeoil salesman, quite the contrary, but I think y'all get my drift. Anyway, that's all I have to say about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 "The thing that bothers me about all this crossover talk is that a lot of people think they have to have it done to cure some flaw in the factory design. That's just not the case." Biting my lip very hard. O.K., I can't say what I'm thinking, so I'll try another angle: So, it makes more sense to spend thousands on gear changes in an attempt to smooth out the top, and bring it into better balance with the cones, or to get rid of the grain/hash or harshness at higher SPLs. Heck, some spend more on wire and interconnects than I charge for the mod (it's $365.00 BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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