imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Most integrated tube amps just use a passive to control the volume. Theres really no need for a active pre if your using a cd player that puts out 2v+. My last tube amp only needed 1v to put out its max power. i tried it both active and passive pre-amped and the passive was better. Im a strong beleiver that the less thats in the signal path the better. Why would you want a bunch of tubes, caps, resistirs, wire...ect in your signal path if you dont need to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Whats with the anit Manley Labs vibe I get from this room?? I bet none of you have even heard any of thier stuff. And how cool is a chick that designs tube amps!! I like Manleys stuff because it has all the good points of SS that most tube amps dont, like nice tight deep bass and highs that arent rolled off, but they dont sacrifice the tube warmth we all love. I think this is why there stuff worlks so well on rock n roll. I am not putting down the Juicy music or NOSvalve stuff, it just seems like you guys worship these amps like they are the only amps out there. there is other good stuff around. Im sure the Blueberry?VRD is excellent but at almost $4000 its a bit pricey to use with a pair of $2000 Klipsch speakers. I mean for $4000 there are a hell of alot of other choices out there. Personally I think I would go with a tubed pre and SS power amp combination. That gives you the best of both worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:23:39 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Ok maybe not double but they are about $1200-$1400 more which is a pretty big chunk of change. Im not putting down your amps, no need to get defensive, Im sure they are very good and have heard lots of great thoings about them. Im just saying that for the money the Stingray is a good deal, and Manley is very highley regarded in the hifi tube comunity. I cant afford the Blueberry/VRD combo right now which is what I really want. So I am going to try out the Manley amp which I can get for $1200 on the used market, maybe I will be prefectly happy with it and wont need to spend the extra money for the Blueberry/VRd. Didnt mean to make it seem like I was putting down your amp, just wanted to make the point thats theres other very good amps out there. BTW you have to admit the Stingray looks cool... ---------------- I'm not upset or being defensive please realize I'm a straight to the point kind of guy. I'm just saying lets be reasonable. Your comparing MONO block amplifiers to a STEREO amplifier with passive controls "no active preamp". If you want to actually compare apples to apples you should compare the cost on the VRD with a Passive preamp then we would have fair comparison and the cost difference will shrink to a few hundred dollars. No big deal one way or the other. Just hate to see someone portraying things in a unfair manor. Now if you really want to compare apples to apples find a new set of 60 watt mono block amplifiers with similar features and comparable looks for anywhere near the price of the VRD's. I think you should try the Stingray and then beg, Barrow and steal a way to give a nice system with a good active preamp and my amps. The difference will be readily apparent. I suggest you bide your time though and pickup a Stingray used so you don't take a bath on resale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:39:50 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Whats with the anit Manley Labs vibe I get from this room?? I bet none of you have even heard any of thier stuff. And how cool is a chick that designs tube amps!! I like Manleys stuff because it has all the good points of SS that most tube amps dont, like nice tight deep bass and highs that arent rolled off, but they dont sacrifice the tube warmth we all love. I think this is why there stuff worlks so well on rock n roll. I am not putting down the Juicy music or NOSvalve stuff, it just seems like you guys worship these amps like they are the only amps out there. there is other good stuff around. Im sure the Blueberry?VRD is excellent but at almost $4000 its a bit pricey to use with a pair of $2000 Klipsch speakers. I mean for $4000 there are a hell of alot of other choices out there. Personally I think I would go with a tubed pre and SS power amp combination. That gives you the best of both worlds ---------------- imperfect, not trying to induce a flame war with you, but have you yourself heard the Manley Stingray to make these statements? I have. My neighbor owned one. Just trying to help a brother out here. If your dead set on the Stingray and didn't want opinions and suggestions, you should not have asked. We're only trying to help save you time, $ and aggravation. Whatever floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:26:40 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Most integrated tube amps just use a passive to control the volume. Theres really no need for a active pre if your using a cd player that puts out 2v+. My last tube amp only needed 1v to put out its max power. i tried it both active and passive pre-amped and the passive was better. Im a strong beleiver that the less thats in the signal path the better. Why would you want a bunch of tubes, caps, resistirs, wire...ect in your signal path if you dont need to? ---------------- Absolutely there is no actual need but that doesn't mean it won't sound better with a nice active preamp even the "Stingray" would sound better with a active preamp driving it IMHO. Back in the hay day of tube audio a integrated amp had a full function preamp built in. These amps are very popular to date because they sound so darn good. Time and again people dump comparable modern integrated amps for these vintage integrated amps with there active preamp because they just seem to get it right. The problem with the vintage integrated route is they all had limited power abilties so for head banging rock they just won't do the rock the house thing with authority. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:39:50 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Whats with the anit Manley Labs vibe I get from this room?? I bet none of you have even heard any of thier stuff. And how cool is a chick that designs tube amps!! I like Manleys stuff because it has all the good points of SS that most tube amps dont, like nice tight deep bass and highs that arent rolled off, but they dont sacrifice the tube warmth we all love. I think this is why there stuff worlks so well on rock n roll. I am not putting down the Juicy music or NOSvalve stuff, it just seems like you guys worship these amps like they are the only amps out there. there is other good stuff around. Im sure the Blueberry?VRD is excellent but at almost $4000 its a bit pricey to use with a pair of $2000 Klipsch speakers. I mean for $4000 there are a hell of alot of other choices out there. Personally I think I would go with a tubed pre and SS power amp combination. That gives you the best of both worlds---------------- I don't remember saying one derogatory word about Manley? I'm just saying if were going to start comparing prices lets compare fairly apples to apples. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:39:50 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Whats with the anit Manley Labs vibe I get from this room?? I bet none of you have even heard any of thier stuff. ---------------- Perhaps you missed my post? I recomended the VTL mono blocks. They are a Manley design. I own a VTL Ultimate preamp and am delighted with it. Those power blocks are 100 watts each and will provide all the punch you could ever want. But hey, if you would rather get into arguements over advice.... So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 11:18:13 AM Cal Blacksmith wrote: ---------------- On 5/11/2005 10:39:50 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote: Whats with the anit Manley Labs vibe I get from this room?? I bet none of you have even heard any of thier stuff. ---------------- Perhaps you missed my post? I recomended the VTL mono blocks. They are a Manley design. I own a VTL Ultimate preamp and am delighted with it. Those power blocks are 100 watts each and will provide all the punch you could ever want. But hey, if you would rather get into arguements over advice.... So be it. ---------------- Doesn't matter they sold this morning. I don't think he's trying to get in a arguement. I just think he is just dead set of the Stingray and will never be satified until he gives it a whirl. I don't think the Stingray will sound bad and it looks impressive as hell. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 How am i trying to get into an arguement, i just dont understand why everyone in this forum seems to feel that the VRD is the only amp out there and nothing is as good as it. Im sure its a nice amp, but there are other good amps out there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I will say again one last time. V T L .....Vacuum Tube Logic NOT V R D......Valve Rollers Dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quicksilver Midmono $1895 Manley Mahi $2500 Im sure theres plenty more out there I just didnt have a chance to look. As for the active vs passive pre-amp, there are pluses and minuses for both so you cant say one is better than the other, just differant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 I havent heard the Stingray but have heard many other Manley amps including the Mahi which is basically the power amp version of a Stingray. I just dont like when people like to put down other products just so they can sell thier own thats not very professional and , thats not what forums are for. Im not the only person who feels this way either as i have recieved a few Emails from other people who fell the same. Forums are for helping pepople and getting advice and information, not making a buck. Im sure the VRD's are great amps but the way he makes it seem is that nothing compares to them, when we all know there are tons of great amps out there. Even after I explained that I couldnt afford the Blueberry/VRD combo he still insists I wouldnt be happy with the Manley amp thats in my price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Ok I will check out the VTL stuff, I wasnt talking about you anayays I was talking about NOSvavles. Sorry if you thought I was directing my post towards you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 One final comment. I am basically redoing my whole system except my source Ah! Tjoeb 4000. I havent even decided on a definite speaker choice yet the RF-7 is at the top of my list but I still have many others to listen to. The whole idea of buying the used Stingray was just to try a PP tube amp with the Klipschs to see how I liked it and if I have to resell it i wont lose money. Im not even sure if Im gonna go with Klipsch and tubes yet, I kinda like the Britsh sound for rock music, much more forgiving of bad recordings and has great rythm and timing compared to most american stuff. I heard an all Naim system that really rocked. Anyways the whole idea was just to try differant stuff without much monetary risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 12:11:44 PM imperfectcircle25 wrote: One final comment. I am basically redoing my whole system except my source Ah! Tjoeb 4000. I havent even decided on a definite speaker choice yet the RF-7 is at the top of my list but I still have many others to listen to. The whole idea of buying the used Stingray was just to try a PP tube amp with the Klipschs to see how I liked it and if I have to resell it i wont lose money. Im not even sure if Im gonna go with Klipsch and tubes yet, I kinda like the Britsh sound for rock music, much more forgiving of bad recordings and has great rythm and timing compared to most american stuff. I heard an all Naim system that really rocked. Anyways the whole idea was just to try differant stuff without much monetary risk.---------------- If this is your true goal I would not go looking for an amplifier that has a SS tone to it and is described as sounding like a SS amplifier. Just my opinion you understand. I suggest you research tube amplifier design a little further also. Your running around picking comparable products by price alone rather then features neither of the amps you pulled up can measure up feature for feature with the VRD. I won't even get into sonics. I think some research on your part is in order. VRD Mono Block Specs and features Walnut or Alder Chassis hand finished with 5 coats of Tung Oil<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Powder coated Silver Top/Bottom and Rear plates 60 watts Ultra Linear/30 watts Triode switchable KT88 output tubes, Standard Full bias control per output tube with above-chassis test points and multi-turn controls 1.1V input sensitivity 100K input impedance AC balance control (absolute balance and the least distortion) 1000V PS filtering for extended life (550uF of effective filtering) 10H choke per amp All Triode front end, 12AX7 Driver, 12AU7 phase splitter, Direct coupled Tube Rectified 5AR4 (for that smooth all tube sound) Separate provisions for 4, 8, and 16 ohm speakers Valve Rollers Dream! The amps can run EL34, 6L6GC, 5881, 350B, KT66, KT88, 6550, KT90 and more (some tube choices require a 5U4GB rectifier tube) Phase splitter can be experimented with, using 12BH7 or <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />ECC99 Input/Driver tube can use 12AX7 and variants Total Harmonic Distortion .06% @ 1 watt, .15% @ 5 watt, 1% @ Full-rated power 20Hz to 20KHz Dimensions 10 ¼ X 14 including speaker binding posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 ---------------- On 5/11/2005 9:32:52 AM DeanG wrote: I would buy the Peach, and a pro amp with a digital switching power supply. This puts you at roughly $2000, and there is no doubt in my mind that for Classic Rock, Metal, and Alternative -- it will completely bury the Stringray. At that point, you can start saving pennies for the VRD's. You might want to squeeze the upgrade for the networks in there somehow, well, at least I would.---------------- On last comment the best, practical advise you were given in this thread was the post above. Well except the network part they don't make any difference Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 "I just dont like when people like to put down other products just so they can sell thier own, that's not very professional, and that's not what forums are for. I'm not the only person who feels this way either as i have received a few Emails from other people who feel the same. Forums are for helping people and getting advice and information, not making a buck." Your last several posts are kind of out there. Do you think for yourself, or do you let a few emails dictate what you should think. You might want to go back and read through the thread again. All I see is a handful of people who listen to similiar music as you, and have tried several different types of amps themselves -- just trying to help you. I actually don't see Craig getting "defensive", just trying to make sure you are making fair comparisons. In fact, I went through the whole thread again, and the first person to mention the VRDs was YOU, and that was after Craig had already posted more than a half dozen times. Since you brought up the amps, and he is the one building them -- it makes sense that he would chime in with some information. Also, I don't see where anyone "put down" the Manley, except to describe its shortcomings -- which just comes with the territory on any forum dealing with anything. If you buy the Stingray, and run it CD direct with the RF-7's -- it will peel the ears off of your head. For now, I think you should go with "the British sound", and after you get coompletely bored to tears with it, you are more than welcome to come back -- at which time we will once again tell you to buy a good linestage. Also, the rule on the forum is that the guys offering crossover upgrades get everyone's upgrade money before the guys offering gear upgrades do. You need to follow this rule to remain a member in good standing. BTW, I don't see Manley on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 I dont think you can get bored with the "britsh sound" thats the one good thing about it, stuff like Naim or Exposure has some of the best rythm and timing(PRAT) and really gets you into the music. I find it hard to believe the Stingray/Rf-7 will "peel my ears off", even with good solid state I dont dfind Klipsch to be that bright and since the Stingray uses tubes it will be smoother than most SS amps up top. If the Naim Nait 3 didnt peel my ears off theres no way any tube design will, its all about having a good source thats most important, if your source isnt bright and harsh your ok. And I do think for myself thats why im not buying into the VRD being the "best" amp around. Im sure its great but there is no "best" amp just differant. Thank you guys for turning me totally off to this forum I will no long bother you, i will stick to the AA forum where selling your product on the forum is not allowed. thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 I have listened to more than my share of amps, and while I started out actually wanting to save for the Blueberry/vrd since everyone seemed to reccomend it, I have to say that I would never buy it, I like to deal with people that a re a bit more professional. And that is the last you shall hear from me goodbye and thanks to all the people who actually did help and didnt just try to sell me thier amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 To each his own ! With remarks like that you don't have to fret I wouldn't sell the amps for double the price. This is not the NOS Valves forum and I was a member here long before I ever started this business. I'm here as a freind and follow audio enthuaist this place is kind of like a family to us all. If you can't take peoples opinions I highly suggest you quit asking. I never brought up my amps you did. Then you started comparing there prices to other completely and none competitive products. I have told you a number of times that YOU SHOULD buy the Stingray. I have no clue what your problem is I just wish you would take it else where. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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