Bose vs. Klipsch

[Seadog]

My brother-in-law bought a pair of 901s in the late '80s. I liked my KG4s better.

[rockbobmel]

I was pretty surprised when I played the "I love big speakers" demo through my 901 (V)s. They actually blew quite a stream of air out to about 18" through the jet ports. I am using them for surrounds, but they are EQd almost to the max and turned around with the 8 drivers out. I have never had other surrounds to compare them with, but I can get a decent timbre match with the EQ.

[ottscay]

Weird...I thought this was a joke thread!

In all seriousness, my friend has 901's (they're from the late 70s or early 80s, I don't know which version). They do actually sound pretty decent. They can't hold a candle to my RF-35s, but he got them for free from his family, so the price was right. The more recent Bo$e attempts barely justify the lable "speaker" (e.g. Acoustimass).

JMHO!

Scott

[efzauner]

Please let us understand what Bose is all about. I owned a consumer electronics store selling Bose, Paradigm, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite etc. Every company and product has its purpose. Does Bose have the best sound? Of course not. No audiophile would say that. But here are the realities of the market place:

1: Large speaker sales have been in big decline. Most large speaker companies like Klipsh, Paradigm etc are either going out of business, or going much higher upmarket, or introducing smaller speaker systems that follow the Bose concept of small satellite with subwoofer. This is a market reality. If your product line is in decline, then it is hard to get mass distribution. Stores are either small specialty shops selling upmarket products, or large box stores selling to the massess. Big companies like Klipsch and Paradigm and Polk could not survive if they did not cater to the masses and sell thru big box stores.

2: Where is the growth market? Many of the original audio companies of the 60s and 70s have gone away. Those that survived successfully executed part 1 above. The growth has been in Home Theater for the masses. You do not do that with huge speakers in the living room anymore because of the style and WAF. (wife acceptance factor for the uninitiated). 95% of consumer electronics buyers would probably be better off with simpler products. The readers of this forum are the audiophiles of this world and we understand, appreciate, and expect to have all sorts of receiver adjustments. We are in the minority. Most of my customers did not know a Hertz from a tweeter, did not know what DTS or AC3 meant. This is where Bose comes in. For the masses it sound fine. It is easy to use (compare a Bose Lifestyle remote to any HT receiver remote) and setup, and looks good. There is definitely a customer for this. You would not believe how many customers purchased regular HT systems (yamaha, HK, Denon etc) and did not know how to hook it up to work, or got confused with all the audio formats, speaker size settings etc. and never really can enjoy surround sound because they cannot get it to work properly. I would not sell a system like this to my parents (who have difficulty using a cell phone) But I would definetly get them a Bose system. If more HT systems where as easy to use as a Bose system, more people would have adopted HT much sooner.

From a business/marketing perpective, Bose sells a concept, not a product and they do that very successfully. They are very protective of their image and they do not publish specifications. This forces the seller and the customer to concentrate on the overall experience and not on watts, bits, herts etc. It creates a brand preference and eliminates specs comparision. (How many un-informed consumers buy HT receiver A over B becuase it has 6x90watts instead of 6x85 watts? we all know 5 watts makes makes no difference.) This keeps prices and profits high. This is what most companies ultimately try to do: Create brand preference by differentiating and staying away from the commoditiztion of the product. Bose has done it well.

But of cours all forum members already know this right?

I know we all love to hate Bose, but lets get over it.

Enjoy your Klipsch!

[dodger]

Ed has a lot of it right.

We have the Reference and McIntosh Dealer I like, 2 snob stores, one used and then the chains.

The rest have been forced out.

[DTLongo]

Thoughtful post Efzauner, thank you.

[D-MAN]

Tirade start:

That only matters if your selling them, not listening to them. Two different things.

Trying to make a little speaker perform like a big speaker flies in the face of physics, and therefore is simply a marketing tool, WAF or not. Why not just go "built-in" - that generally has a very high WAF?

Let's face it; the marketplace has no say in what constitutes good sound. An just because it sells to Jim-Bob and his wife Cheasy-May at WalMart, BB, GGs, Sears, whatever, doesn't make it sound good.

Tirade end.

DM

[rockbobmel]

Ed has a good point. Look at the recording artist music industry. It sells what is most marketable (rap nowadays). Do I like it? or do I think it is in good taste? No. But the music companies are not going to listed to or care what I like. They are interested in what sells. I am just greatful that my music tastes (I think they are good) are able to be fed anyway.

[KungFuNat]

the real problem is the contempt bose has for its customers... it sells a rediculously over-priced product with litterally negitive build quality to the ignorant and uninformed.. if it priced its products reasonably, then i wouldnt have much of a problem, but $4000 for a lifestyle 48 system that has $150 worth of parts in it isnt just highway robbery, its boarders on a mugging.

Dr. Bose hasnt given a crap about the companys speakers in 20 years, all that profit goes into supporting his government contracts, and project sound(bose suspension for cars).

Ill give you guys another bit of inside info: bose sales are down, and most of the audio engineers ive talked to think its because word is getting out that the product isnt worth anywhere near what they are charging.. in this day and age, where the clear sales trend points to speakers as an afterthought, asking $4000 from a customer that just spent $3000 on a HDTV isnt going to fly.. so what does bose do? more advirtisements and bose stores around the country.. This is the beginning of the downfall ladies and gentlemen.. mark my words. in the days before the internet, when they could suppress all negative opinions by lawsuits, this worked marvelously.. nowadays, the word is spreading like wildfire, and its comming back to bite them in the ***.

[skonopa]

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On 5/12/2005 8:52:04 PM NatGun wrote:

the real problem is the contempt bose has for its customers... it sells a rediculously over-priced product with litterally negitive build quality to the ignorant and uninformed.. trust me, i have a hand in the displays in every bose store. if it priced its products reasonably, then i wouldnt have much of a problem, but $4000 for a lifestyle 48 system that has $150 worth of parts in it isnt just highway robbery, its boarders on a mugging.

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Exactly! I have not problem with the small sub/sat type setups, but I do have a problem with the rediculous prices Bose wants to charge. I even have more problems when somebody tries to tell me that Bose is the best there is and that the Klipsch must not be any good because he "never heard of them".

Like you said - $4,000 Lifestyle 48 system! Go into the local Tweeter store and you can get a set of the Mirage Nano-Sats (which are not much larger than the dual-cubes in the LS-48) with sub, a Denon AVR2805 reciever, a Samsung HD-841 DVD player, and you have a kick-*** little system that is not even half the price of a Bose Lifestyle 48 setup. Have trouble setting it up? Pay the extra $300 and have a technition to come out and set it up for you, and you are still well ahead. Hell, I'd be willing to set it up for free if I am in the area - just be asking for some beer and a pizza.

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On 5/12/2005 12:44:13 PM PM efzauner wrote:

I know we all love to hate Bose, but lets get over it.

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Why? I am having to much fun picking on the Blose AcoustiCrap and LostStyle setups, with the direct-repulsive sound. For a bit of fun on a slow day - Google up "Why Bose Sucks" and see what interesting hits comes up.

And everytime I get a chance, I'll do my best to talk people out of getting Bose and find better alternatives for HT solutions. And no, they don't have to be big speakers, as there are plenty of options with sats that are nearly as large or maybe slightly larger than the Bose cubes, but with a real tweeter and a real woofer, and containing a real sub, not that crappy POS "bass module" in the Bose junk.

I'll give it that the Bose is often easy to setup and they do look sleek - but not for the asking price. If it was a 1/3 of the price, I'd have no problem recommending Bose, but as it stands now? As they say - Buy Other Sound Equipment!

[formica]

There are alot of mediocre speakers out there Bose is one of many. One thing that seems to frustrate a lot of people here, are the prices charged for their products. If anything, this should encourage potential buyers to think twice and research the subject a little. Yet some fall through the cracks...

Truth is there is a large market of people who honestly don't really care what they sound like... but they got to look cute. They also have money to spare.

We are not typical consumers... and I think there are more people who will think I'm nuts with a heritage HT than those with Acoutimess.

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On 5/12/2005 10:56:44 PM skonopa wrote:

And everytime I get a chance, I'll do my best to talk people out of getting Bose and find better alternatives for HT solutions. And no, they don't have to be big speakers, as there are plenty of options with sats that are nearly as large or maybe slightly larger than the Bose cubes, but with a

real

tweeter and a

real

woofer, and containing a

real

sub

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If size is important... I wish more people would consider Klipsch Promedia... computer OR HT in a box... is there really a difference? Size is similar, but performance isn't.

To each his own...

Rob

[DTLongo]

Do a Google on "Bose Project Sound." Pretty interesting what comes up. Judging from a video on one of the sites, it seems to work, too.

I guess there is something to be said for his having kept his company private and immune from Wall Streetian short-term concerns.

I am as jaundiced as many of you about some Bose aspects, but Dr. Bose himself must be quite a guy.

[ironwoods]

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On 5/9/2005 9:04:00 PM NatGun wrote:

i work for bose currently,.........,bose audio engineers dont even use bose speakers in the recording studios.

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Hey NatGun, do you know who's speakers, one might find in these studios?

Dean, I like that phrase; "The reward for their laziness is crappy sound". Maybe some humorous T-shirts, bumper stickers and/or window clings, to help spread these words of wisdom?

"Acoustimess- your reward for laziness"

"B***... if music and money mean nothing"

I have to wonder if somewhere there's a Bose forum, with a Klipsch bashing thread.

[skonopa]

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On 5/15/2005 6:09:31 AM ironwoods wrote:

I have to wonder if somewhere there's a Bose forum, with a Klipsch bashing thread.

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Just out of curiosity, I went and did a Google on "Bose Forum" to see what came up. Lots of "Bose" threads in various forums, pretty much all of them "bashing" threads of some type or another. Usually, they start out with somebody asking if Bose is any good, or "Why don't people like Bose?".

However, the only forum that I found that is actually dedicated to Bose is this one on the HomeTheater SPOT site. I notice there is a moderator "sticky" telling people to quit trolling and bashing Bose. However, didn't see any Klipsch bashing though. Could you imagine if Bose themselves tried to start a forum? I'd bet as soon as somebody says one negative word about thier products - ZAP!! Banned!

[KungFuNat]

they actually have their studio monitors custom-made with no-name on them.. years ago, they used a brand-name speaker, but i have no idea which.. they went to the no-name speakers because people started to ask questions why they didnt use bose speakers.

BUT, they do use name-brand subwoofers in the studio right next to me, its a genelec... thing is freaking INSANE:

http://www.genelec.com/products/7071a/7071a.php

[TBrennan]

Well if Bose makes mediocre speakers that are overpriced they're hardly alone in that, especially if you consider "audiophile" type speakers sold in snotty salons.

A couple of Vifa or SEAS drivers from the Madisound catalog and price over $2000 a pair is not uncommon.

[CAS]

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On 5/15/2005 1:40:09 PM NatGun wrote:

BUT, they do use name-brand subwoofers in the studio right next to me, its a genelec... thing is freaking INSANE:

http://www.genelec.com/products/7071a/7071a.php

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Not a bad looking product line. Their sub enclosures appear to be front-firing horizontal cylinders. I wonder how that ends up sounding.

[ironwoods]

Yeah Tom, imagine if they developed speakers, using higher-end drivers like that. Mortgage material.

Bose.... when you have chosen to live in a hole.

[KungFuNat]

i can only sum up the genelec in one word: powerfull.. i work in a completely sound-isolated studio which is physically decoupled from the rest of the building.. when the genelec starts hitting 17hz, the whole studio shakes.. the sound engineers absolutely love the thing. it is absolutely massive though, i dont have room for something that big.