cueman Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 ---------------- On 5/30/2005 12:21:04 PM jorjen wrote: With the contact adhesive you really need to wait until it dries to work your edges. This can lenthen your project a bit. ---------------- Actually, when I used contact cement, I worked with the wood immediately after. You do not need to wait for any drying, as it should be dry already when you adhere the 2 sides together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 All, Isn't the backed veneer a lot thinner? How did Klipsch use lacquer for all those years without issue? BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 The adhesive IS non-tacky when you mate the surfaces, but it is by no means dry or cured. If you did not have any problems, cool. But, I recommend giving it some time so you do not run the risk of end grain tear out/pull up, lifting at the edges or otherwise. I have done alot of veneering and believe me, it can and does happen. No reason to rush it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hi, Jordan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 ---------------- On 5/30/2005 9:39:20 PM BS Button wrote: Isn't the backed veneer a lot thinner? ---------------- Yes it is thinner. ---------------- How did Klipsch use lacquer for all those years without issue? ---------------- Klipsch built it's cabinets with veneered plywood (or MDF in later years) purchased pre-veneered. It comes from the factory that way, and is manufactured using a high-pressure press (probably a hot press, but I'm not a materials specialist.... so I'm just guessing) and a specialized glue. It's a different animal and a more stable product... Rob PS: nice BS button image... looks familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesfan70 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 I have a question. When I was looking around the GL Veneer website, I noticed they had products under "veneer" and one under "10 mil". What is the difference? Is the 10 mil the raw veneer and if so, is it pretty thick? I'm guessing it's probably 3/8" thick (or 10 mm). Any ideas on what type of finish/shade Klipsch used for their "medium oak finish"? I would like my center speaker to match my mains as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Sorry I haven't been keeping up with this thread, very busy at work. I've done a little reading on using contact cement with raw wood veneer, and there are some concerns being voiced about veneer creeping. Jordan, what do you think? I just can't figure out why I'm having so many problems with the last titebond/iron veneer job I did. Every time I turn around there's another bubble forming. It's almost as if the oil is working it's way under the veneer and loosening it up. I think I would have done better with wipe-on poly than the multi-coat oil finish. I may be overheating the veneer when I install it. I'm working in a damp environment, shop with a leaky roof. It doesn't leak onto my projects, but the whole place is damp. I hope to have better luck with the new heatlock glue. It may be a while before I use it (it's finally boating season here in Maine!), but I'll try to post something about it when I do. I'd like to try contact cement with raw wood to see if I have any problems with it. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Hi right back atcha Gregg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Hey Greg, Nice to see you pop in, I was hoping you would. So far, I have only had one slightly negative experience with contact adhesive "creeping" as you say. But, I think it was my fault. As I was told many years back, it is wise to adhere unbacked veneer to a thin cross-grain substrate material(just like backed veneer sort of)if you are going to veneer with the the grain of the veneer going in the same direction as the grain of the surface you are covering. Well, I got half way through a 300 cigar desktop humidor laying the veneer down with the grain of my casework when I realized I forgot the cross-grain substrate. Sure enough after a couple months I began to see some slight shifting and seperation at my seams/joints. Live and learn. I did something once just to see how it would work. I put my veneer tape on the side of the veneer that was going to be glued and left it on. I thought that it is so thin that it would have no visible signs of being under the veneer and I thought it may help keep the seams from shifting down the road. And I did not have to go with the cross-grain substrate. You know what? It worked like a charm. After 8 years, no seam seperation. I know this is not the way to use veneer tape but it worked out just fine. Oh, and by the way Greg, the problem with the Titebond you had is the same problem I had with one of my Khorns. That is why I do not think I am going to use the Titebond method on the Belles. I was able to fix the bubbling by reheating and clamping until cooled and cured, but what a pain in the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Where does one find a thin substrate to glue to the back of the raw wood veneer? What is the thickness? I don't know if I like that idea because I'd be back to the thing I don't like about backed veneer, the edges of the substrate show too much. I wonder if there is some sort of paper backer that can be glued to the raw wood veneer? I hope the heat lock glue works better. Your idea of leaving the veneer tape on is interesting, but wouldn't it only be relying on the glue of the veneer tape to hold the veneer on? At least in those areas that have the tape? I'll be gone for the weekend, so I won't be checking this for a while. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Greg Tape ease makes a NBL where the grain runs the same direction as the veneer. When it is stained you see the backer a lot less. They also make 10 mil. paper backed veneers that are much thinner than wood. I agree overall raw wood veneer is the best. It is just so dang hard to work with at times. I think what people do not realize is that some hardwoods and exotics can actually repel contact cement if applied directly to raw wood veneer even up to a yr. or two later. I have heard of people using gorila Glue with good results it can be bought at Lowes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I seem to remember reading that the Iron-On veneer method was good for most veneers with the exception of those with high oil content... which, ironically, they gave rosewood as an example. Something about the oil coming out with the heat, and creating less consistent results... which would explain Greg's woes. Unfortunately I did a search for the article... and I can't seem to find where I read it... but probably a FAQ section of a popular wood-veneering site... After reading the posts on here, I had developed doubts for the method... but it may not be so risky after all... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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