jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Okay, this may get long. I appreciate everyones comments. Kepp em coming. Michael. Honestly, I though about everything in your post already. If I could think of one drawback of this type of cabinet would be it's similarity to a cube. Same as Bob Crites although his is closer ro a cube than mine. This has been brought up before. HOWEVER, if I were to think of the perfect way to do a Cornscala would be to do it the way I did. I seriously thought about this for several months...even before Bob Came out with his (although he probably thought of it long before me). If I were to build this again, I would make the HF section 1/8 shorter and you could use your Cornwall grills! 1st of all, I didn't know how well it would sound. I therefore bought all parts that could be resold easily or I could just build a Cornwall. Again, I felt it very important to keep the motorboard the same. This means that the openings of the ports, port volume, and the position of the woofer from the ports. Literally, This IS the same motorboard that was cutoff about 1- 1 1/2 inches from above the woofer. I don't want a cabinet with horns w/in. This limits me from changing out horns in the future because of different volumes. Also, a sealed cabinet with a K401 would be huge! Also,I had the Trachorn in mind. This won't work in a sealed cabinet very well. I wanted to be able to change out the crossover and mid/tweet easily. With this design, The motorboard of the HF section screws out easily and you could have a different setup w/in minutes. I already knew I would probably use Trachorns when I built this. If you wanted to break it up a bit, you could put your internal wood bracing different than I did. Now, the tall cornwall or Cornscala is still in my thoughts. Yes the idea of higher placed horns is a good idea. It isn't hitting my knees since I am 6 foot 2 inces and i am sitting with a cool one. I would probably plan on using the Trachorn since it is 18-19 inches deep. The width would be about the same. I would consider a Beyma tweeter. I want to make my own crossover but I still am a little intimidated. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 oops Noticed a typo on one of my diagrams. This has already been updated on the website. Since we were discussing the motorboard today, I was doing some reviewing and caught a glitch. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Thanks JC, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't thought of the 'experimentability' factor for the mid/high pack. In that manner, your design makes great sense. I also appreciate that you had the forethought to maintain the same driver/port dimensions exactly on the motorboard. There is so much to take into account, isn't there? btw, will you be publishing your specs and dimensions anytime soon. It's summer and the boys want to fire up their table saws! FOr now, I'd guess the box was 24D x 35.75H? x 25.5W (the last two are Cornwall dimensions and the 24" would be required to house the K400) If you move the the Tractrix/Beyma setup, it'd be easier to change cabinet dimensions since you wouldn't have the K400 depth/width to mess with. Well, HOW DO THEY SOUND? They do look incredible. Kudos to you for having the cajones to actually build one after everyone, including me, has talked about it for so long! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Michael...Dude! Yes, I have posted this. It is a 12 MB file that is 40 pages long. It coveers the project right down to where you put the screws and what size screws. If you follow the document, there really isn't a way to mess up. There three ways to get the document http://www.jwcullison.com/csindex.htm If you have a slow connection: http://www.jwcullison.com/csclicktoconvert/index1.html OR YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THE MS WORD FILE AND SAVE SOME TIME ftp://www.jwcullison.com/Cornscala/cs/Cornwall%20mod%20description4.doc I also have a printout that you can take to Home Depot and they can cut the wood for you. You then just have to build. EASY! ftp://www.jwcullison.com/Cornscala/cs/woodorderallgrill.doc Start cuttin man! I've been workin on that Tall Cornscala. Will post a possibility soon. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Oh yea...meant to mention.... These sound better than I had imagined. I have unhooked my La Scalas at this point. Seriously, the mid and highs was identical when comparing my ALK Cornscala to the ALK La Scala. The taps on the La Scala universal "A" was 4 and X. The bass was very fast and much lower than the La Scala. I no longer use the subs with 2 channel listening. I WILL build another pair at some time. The cost was about $1600. You have to remember, this is NEW! Drivers are new as well as the crossover. If Klipsch came out with this, there is no tellin what the cost would be! jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 JC if your coming to the Klipsch weekend and if at all possible we could see the bottom cabinet if it is split. (Or the whole thing. I bet Trey could test it as well. That way, we could all see and hear it too.) Trey has been gracious to let us use his La Scalas at the hotel friday night (I know asking a lot here ) but if you brought yours nothing like 40- 50 people seeing and hearing your work too. So please are you coming? Maybe Michael could build a pair of bottoms off of your list if you can't make it too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Man, I would love to come. But my schedule is crazy and unflexible. Trey would really test it? Oh my. Tell me the date again. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 JC, just downloaded and PRINTED the whole thing. Very impressive work, especially for a first-time cabinet builder! WIth your permission, I'll offer hard copy printouts to anyone who can't download your very impressive documentation. (Bob?) Good photos and tips for construction. You definitely got this project right. You're my hero DUDE! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Thanks, Not sure if Bob will mind or not. Remember, none of these measurements were takin from Bob's project. This bass bin is different and the HF section is taller and wider. Now this DOESN'T mean it's better. My opinion: His cabinet is very "close" to a La Scala with a direct woofer. Mine is very much like a Cornwall with an HF section. just how you look at it. It still makes it a "Cornscala". To be honest, I original called this whole project an "extreme Cornwall mod". You can see this by some of my naming of files on the net. However, Bob has his in CAD program and can shell out those panels for you and ship em. It actually isn't that expensive. He is great to work with. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 One difference between the Cornscalas I built and the ones that JC built is the intended function. For mine, I planned to build some boxes to enable quick testing of rebuilt drivers. The fact that they sounded good enough for me to give up listening to Cornwalls and Lascalas was a pleasant surprise. Something I hoped for but did not really expect. Mine still live a very utilitarian life in my shop serving as a test bed for rebuilt drivers. They do sound very very good. JC's are lots better looking. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmjrt Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 From JWC I've been workin on that Tall Cornscala. Will post a possibility soon. jc HI JWC, I want you to know that your experiment/building project has been very inspirational. It's really got me to thinking about my own Cornscala. I have Cornwalls now but to join a Cornwall bass and LaScala mids/highs does sound like a little bit of heaven! I've reread this post a few times and was wondering if you had made any progress on that tall Cornscala. Sure sounds like a winner to me....although the one that you designed already is a dream. Thanks for all of the effort that you put into the design and documentation. The sharing of ideas is very cool. I'm sure that there are quite a few inspired folks out there. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 Very nice, and thank you. Actually, I have a design for that Tall Cornscala. In order to do that, as you know, the width of the port and motorboard has been compromised. I think that it still can be done. Nice to see others interested in this concept. There is no doubt in my mind that the Cornscala is a big step! I am working with others with great interest to even improve this idea. My project was to keep a PWK-like design and improve it. Yes indeed it did. This design to me is the REFERENCE for future designs. Now I can swap/change things. Such as the Trachorn. Also, changing networks is a snap with a HF section. No opening a cabinet over and over again to test things. On this forum, time and time again, people would discuss the advantages and disadvantages of a Cornwall vs a La Scala/Belle. The Cornwall would always lose in one category only...the midrange. The La Scala has a mid bass that is hard to beat...but the low end on the Cornwall is even HARDER to beat. Well, now that Cornwall can't lose in my opinion. It just took a different cabinet and a cheap midhorn at $50 (K401) to do that. Upgrade for Cornwallers is easy. Just keep the same drivers and network for starters. Sell those K600's on Ebay for way more than you would have to pay for the K401. Please, let us know of your plans when ready. If you have been reading in the updates and modifications thread, there are many ideas/things you can do for the Type B network design. When I get the chance, I will post the Tall Cornscala. Just need to get it out of this pile of other plans. Yes, it has the same volume port, same port opening, same bass bin volume. Probably is more wife appealing. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Found those schematics of the Tall Cornscala. This is a sketch of the front with the motorboard. It has 4 openings. Note the internal width of the bass bin in 17 inches. The K401 or Trachorn would need to be vertical as previously discussed. The tweeter and mid horn would be side-by-side. Yes you could use the Beyma CP25 or JBL 2404H. If the cabinet were made to accomiadate the mid horn horizontally, you are now at about 20 inches wide to make it work well. If you are gonna do this, might as well trash the TALL idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Now just to let you know my schematic will work for a properly tuned K33, here are some of my calculations. The area of the port openings are the same as the 84' and 77' Cornwall. The port volume is the same as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 So has anybody tried a Trachorn mounted vertically yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 It would be nice to to know how the Trachorn would sound mounted vertically. Same question about the K401. Al K. would need to address this. He probably has some laying around. If the sound is good, there is more the reason to give the tall Cornscala a try (for WAF appeal and to give the horns more "hieght" ). After building the Cornscala dbb's, I realized that the port CAN be changed provided the volume of the port and the area of its opening remain the same. Bob, thanks for the "Bump". I was gonna do it myself but I couldn't find this thread after the new forum transition. Haven't quite yet got the new system down. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 here is another sketch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Guys, I am not a horn expert by any means, but I think a difraction horn is the only type you mount vertically. The K77 tweeter is and example. The Trachorn and K400 should both be mounted horizontally. The dispersion pattern is horixontal. Unless you plan to listen from the top of a ladder you want horizontal dispersion. You very possibly my be off center though. The Trachorn is really a Bruce Edgar design and his article describing it shows it horizontal. jw: I thought you already had a board cut for the Trachorn? It's still empty! Hint! [] Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Al, Yes I still have the baffle cut for your Trachorns. I haven't foregotten about you or this thread. I got sidetracked with this whole cabinet building project(s). The Cornscala dbb project has taken a lot of my time. I apoligize. Eventually, I will try out the Trachorns and flirt with the possibility of how I can get Your ES networks to work with this setup (or maybe another one if I don't stop building). I partially blame you for my sickness[]. I used to just read this forum for a long time; no posting. When I installed those ALK "A" networks in my past La Scalas, I was absolutely floored by the sound. Since then, I have been addicted to the "self" upgrades or "DIY" projects. I must have spent $20K on my audio setup and the local McIntosh and B & W dealer think I am insane for not spending the equivalent amount of money on my speakers. How is it the vertical Cornwall was able to get away with the vertical K600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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