DizRotus Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Amway is hugely successful, but do you know anyone who actually uses the products? The soap is actually not bad, but Amway and Amway distributors arent really selling soap, theyre selling the illusion that Amway distributors get rich by recruiting Amway distributors to recruit Amy distributors, to recruit Amway distributors, hence a pyramid is formed.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> It's based on a geometric progression on a factor of 5. "You know five people and they each know five people, etc." At that rate, in twelve steps a single Amway distributor would reap the profits from 61,035,206 Amway distributors below him/her in the pyramid. Obviously, there is no market to sustain 61,035,206 Amway distributors selling soap, in short order everyone in the world would be a distributor; there would be no one left to buy the products. Its like the bar bet based on a geometric progression on a factor of two. Give me a penny today, two pennies tomorrow, four pennies the next day, eight pennies the fourth day, etc., doubling each day. On day 28 you would be giving me $1,342,177.20. If doubling a penny generates $1, 342,177.20 in 28 steps, imagine what quintupling the number of Amway distributors at every layer of the pyramid would do. Amway would be ok if someone would get dirty and sell some soap; instead they sell an ephemeral dream based on a geometric progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 For some, everything is a 'scam'; Bose, Wal-Mart, Monster, Amway - whatever it is that they don't like or agree with. If only it were so simple. Amway is not a scam. If you 'do the deed' it works. If you successfully recruit motivated participants who are likewise motivated to sign up others to USE Amway products (NOT sell them!!!) and to sign up others to do this, it works. Even if they don't sign up others, if they simply continue to personally use the products you continue to get a (albeit small) percentage as a distributor. And for each level of the tier you increase, the greater the composite earning. One of the biggest problems with dealing with Amway is the (often irrational) bias on the part of too many who have only heard of Amway (but of COURSE know ALL about it!), or they talk to others who were members at one time who were perhaps not fully aware or motivated to do what it took to succeed. And then there are the complete idiots who joined, got caught up in attending 100 motivational functions at ~1000 apiece, never figured out how to effectively market the 'product', and still can't figure out why they are not millionaires - and who now label Amway a scam. And unfortunately this problem is compounded as the strategic business plan, the dynamic, is usually not fully explained by those who are only too ready to sign up anybody who will sign on the dotted line. They simply bought into the grand vision. Oh, and if any one is exhausting all their friends in that business, that is a BIG CLUE that they have NO idea how the business works. And if 'selling to family and friends' is the extent of their marketing acumen, they will fail, whether they have 1 friend, or a million! That is NOT the way to be successful in that business! But we keep hearing all about people exhausting friends! Well, for every person that has mentioned that, they are precisely the ones who will fail in MLM. Would I do Amway? No, as I not only do not want to be locked into the one line of products, but I don't want to deal with the reputation it has acquired as evidenced on this site. But discard the nay saying emotional folks who categorically dismiss a venture as everyone knows it can't be done". It can, but not with that failure mindset of those naysayers who have shut down their thinking instead of asking "how can it be done" that keeps the mind open to creative possibilities. There are lots of better self-employment business opportunities. If you are interested in such a venture, start by getting a subscription to Entrepreneur magazine and start doing your homework. Start researching small firms that are succeeding. Do market analysis - and if that sounds daunting, take a course or two at the local community college. But you aren't going to find success prepackaged with the work already done for you in any $39.95 box!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> And , for those who STILL think the business is SELLING SOAP, it is NOT! It is in USING the soap yourself! And then recruiting others who will do the same and recruit others to do the same, and infinitum! At least understand the reality instead of debating an erroneous image! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I was in Amway once. Boy, did it screw me up. If I ever find the guy that scammed me into it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Me too, about 27 years ago. But only for about a week. I never did use up the assortment of Amway products that came in that 'oriention pack' that they had us buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I sold Cutco once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cueman Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 They like to go to Denny's and have coffee and pie. No joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 ---------------- On 5/23/2005 8:44:19 PM cueman wrote: They like to go to Denny's and have coffee and pie. No joke. ---------------- Cripes, dude, you know how much coffee and pie I've put away?? "Cost per use" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus111 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I had a co-worker try to get me into the act. He took me to one of the meetings, and it was one of the creepiest experiences I've ever had. I couldn't get the Jim Jones cult and people drinking cyanide kool-aide out of my head. These people were clearly brainwashed, and I felt like the whole thing was designed to brainwash the newcomers like me. It took 6 months to get this co-worker off of my back, before he finally got the point that I didn't want to join. Stay away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 The more I find out about this, the more interesting it gets Amway's Secret "Bush Controls The FTC While Amway Rips Off Millions Every year, Amway rips of millions of people all over the world through a secret pyramid scheme that will no doubt continue for as long as Bush is in office and controls the Federal Trade Commission. The scheme was the subject of the May 7, 2004, edition of NBC's Dateline, when it aired an expose that revealed that the main income of the Amway kingpins does not come from the sale of products, that it comes from the sale of books, tapes and seminars tickets (also known as "tools"), in a secret program operating under the cover of the Amway sales organization. Dateline determined that about 20 high level distributors are part of an exclusive club that has "run hugely profitable businesses, selling all those books, tapes and seminars -- things the rank and file distributors can't sell themselves, but are told over and over again they need to buy in order to succeed," it reported. ....." This is even more cool, they say Amway is like the Mafia I think I should do it..... c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 ---------------- On 5/23/2005 9:06:27 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote: The more I find out about this, the more interesting it gets Amway's Secret "Bush Controls The FTC While Amway Rips Off Millions Every year, Amway rips of millions of people all over the world through a secret pyramid scheme that will no doubt continue for as long as Bush is in office and controls the Federal Trade Commission. The scheme was the subject of the May 7, 2004, edition of NBC's Dateline, when it aired an expose that revealed that the main income of the Amway kingpins does not come from the sale of products, that it comes from the sale of books, tapes and seminars tickets (also known as "tools"), in a secret program operating under the cover of the Amway sales organization. Dateline determined that about 20 high level distributors are part of an exclusive club that has "run hugely profitable businesses, selling all those books, tapes and seminars -- things the rank and file distributors can't sell themselves, but are told over and over again they need to buy in order to succeed," it reported. ....." --------------- Sorry, but this is so mixed up with wacko innuendo and paranoid delusions as to be the REAL source of concern! Yeah, Amway is empowered by Bush. As if after 30 some years of operation, Bush is now in some way critical to their operation. And as far as Amway kingpins making money from books and other motivational material; you obviously haven't spent any time in college where academic publishing is perhaps the biggest scam going! And I can speak to that from first hand experience ... Secret pyramid schemes??? - so Amway's multi-level marketing program is SECRET??? And the motivational program component is SECRET??? Hahaha! Secret maybe to those so ignorant as to be amazed by the obvious! ...And colleges participate in a SECRET program whereby students MUST buy materials only sold by the school bookstores (until recent legislative changes!) in a SECRET plot referred to as academic publishing!! What was this? Another Dan Rather Exclusive? What complete and utter BS! This sounds like a page out of the victim's handbook where the government must save all the idiots from themselves who voted with their dollars for Windows from Microsoft! Secret indeed! And to think that I have been aware of this 'non-secret' for years and never saw the SECRET NBC special! And what, pray tell, is preventing those idiot victims from thinking for themselves and assuming alittle responsibility for the decisions they make??? Poor babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I sold Multi-Pure water purifiers a long time ago. Ugggh. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 If you sign up dont EVER knock on my door and try to sell me a thing or I'll tell you something you wont want to hear. I feel sorry for kids who try to sell stuff door to door for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 So now I am confused. Is it a good deal or what? It makes sense, the books the Amway kingpins sell you are just like the textbooks in a college course that the professor wants you to buy. I like education. Maybe the real money is in writing a book about it and giving it away for free. c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 The issue with any multi-level marketing program is that you must develop a network of distributors. If you aren't motivated to do this as your primary function, you should not be in the program. If your world view is such that you are only going to harass family and friends, you should not become involved. Second to that, you need to look at the product or service and determine the attractiveness and marketability of the product/service. And then you need to spend some time exploring the support and the training available. Not just if it exists, but the details. And if people are not willing to expose you to this and answer all of YOUR questions, hopefully well thought out from the point of view of examining the BUSINESS, don't do it. There ARE excellent multi-level marketing firms with excellent products available. But like franchises, they may not all be suited to you, nor you to them. Be smart! Do the research! As far as Amway, in particular, is concerned, there are members who have been phenomenally successful. But I personally would run from them.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> ------------------------------- "Maybe the real money is in writing a book about it and giving it away for free." ...not so sure about that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Everything everyone has written here is the truth except for Bush controlling the FTC. Amway is an organization that oozes rightwing religious rhetoric, however. I was involved with the Amway corporation for about 4 years with some level of success. However, as Mdeenen so aptly pointed out, I could not be one of the people in the picture with Dexter Yager and Bill Britt. If you want to have an excellent introduction to sales, check out the reading list. I would NOT recommend that business. It left me with a LOT of baggage and lingering dissatisfaction with life. Forrest p.s. the soap products, while expensive, are excellent. LOC cleans the scum from bathtubs better than *anything*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 I reverse engineered from the photograph mdeneen posted to better help me decide if I fit into that picture (I do own a number of silk ties). Here is the caption that was under that photo: "What Amway and certain DeVos family members do not make public is that they have been named as co-defendants in multiple fraud related lawsuits with Yager. As we climbed through the ranks, we had direct contact with Yager and his teachings. Here I am pictured with Dexter Yager, Fred Harteis and the rest of the Diamonds whose organization controls the bulk of Amways billions in annual volume. This was taken at a secretive, invite only top gun school. From first hand experience, I can attest to the fact that what is shown to the public is far different from what occurs behind closed doors in "leaders only" meetings. Like most all the other Diamonds, the Yagers make representations about their income that appear to be fraudulent. Heres one from Birdie... And all we have ever had in the business is our Amway income. We still do not have tool income. That might come as a surprise to some of you. But thats all we have is Amway income. But do you know why we have a big Amway income? Its because we took some of the principles from the Bible and we lived by them. Now this seems strange in that lawsuits brought against the Yagers estimate their income from the secretive tools business to be as much as $40,000,000 annually." Now I know why my College professors always seemed so rich. (We had to buy their lab manuals and everything....) C&S This whole Amway thing is starting to remind me of other operations which are run behind closed doors at secret meetings which ultimate lead to deceiving the public. Sounds like a fun thing to get into. $40,000,000 annually and that is just the tools business.....hmmm....they say it only takes a few years of working in your spare time 12-15 hours/week. I think I could swing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 ---------------- On 5/23/2005 9:06:27 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote: ........ Amway rips of millions of people all over the world through a secret pyramid scheme that will no doubt continue for as long as Bush is in office and controls the Federal Trade Commission. ---------------- Oh, Bush has been letting this happen? Don't believe everything you read. Didn't we just have a bunch of Muslims kill each other because of another reporter that didn't check his facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 This thread reminds me of that original StarTrek episode where they go through the transporter and end up on the parallel universe Enterprise. Everything is just a little different spock has a gotee and everyone acts like they are on heroin. This is the klipsch forum for but its all Amway coffee and pie....I'm scared...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 ---------------- On 5/23/2005 10:36:15 PM No NHL ! ?? wrote: "Don't believe everything you read. ..." First I have to at least read it and there seems to be an endless amount of juicy stuff on the internet! Then I can decide, and after that I can hang out and go fishling at the local Denny's wearing a tie and see if I can snag me my very own Amway sponsor. If I persist night after night, I bet in a couple of years of coffee and pie I could eventually find me an Amway sponsor and then really get started selling that bathtub scum remover I heard about. I bet that stuff sells itself! In a couple more years after that I be making that 40 mil they talk about, and then buy me all the Klipsch I have corners for. And also raise some rabbits and grow my own carrots. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 "This whole Amway thing is starting to remind me of other operations which are run behind closed doors at secret meetings which ultimate lead to deceiving the public." If there are enough people to continue this operation to the degree you suggest for >30 years and to the tune of $40 million annually, it sounds pretty successful! No other scam or mismanaged company has been able to do such for more then a year or two! And heaven knows the Federal government certainly hasnt been able to do it. The bottom line is that if you don't want to do it, DON'T! The others are just as free as you are to do the research and make an educated decision regarding their own involvement. Better informed folks have examined Amway for TOO many years in each state without finding fundamental errors. Have they been found in violation of some regulations? Sure! So do YOUR job and make informed decisions! But as far as all the secret conspiracies are concerned, go watch the X-Files. {But if you want to look for conspiracies, there does seem to be a trend of the big 'families' in several belonging to one particular religion! And at the risk of offending anyone as I wouldn't want anyone tainted by all the conspiracy lunacy, if you want to discuss it, you can PM me.} <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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