No Disc Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Would dampening signal caps and electrolytics from mechanical vibration inside components or crossovers yield any sonic benifits? Why or why not? No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Hello No Disc, The short answer is simply: NO I am not sure what you are concerned about. If you are worried that the cabinet vibration will snap a solder connection, that is unlikely. good luck -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:09:35 AM No Disc wrote: Would dampening signal caps and electrolytics from mechanical vibration inside components or crossovers yield any sonic benifits? Why or why not? No Disc ---------------- No Disc, Can you restate the question? I don't understand what you are asking. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I'm not worried that cabinet vibration will snap a solder connection. I am just curious if anyone has experimented with dampening caps to see if reducing mechanical vibration of caps improves the sound quality. There are many threads over at the Audio Asylum that indicate there can be positive results from doing this. Since we have several knowledgeable electronics geeks in the forums here, I thought their input would be interesting. No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 No disk makes an interesting point. I have a preamp on the bench right now that has a "microphonic" elecrtolytic cap. You can tap it and it rings like a chinese 12AX7! It is hard to say what the effect would be in a X'over if a cap was similarly afflicted. It is a good question. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Taking the plastic covers off electrolytics is supposed to make them sound better also. But it is nice to know the values..... There is a site of somebody tearing off the aluminum casings off Elna Cerafines and mounting what's left in a tube of wood, claims better sound. Best thing to do is get rid of the 'lytics in my dumb opinion. A Russian chap a long time ago told me if the tweak is safe and doesn't comprimise one's safety or the said unit, why not? BTW, what are they using to damp electrolytic capacitors with? Blue Tac? I've used it to hold oversized capacitors in place with regards to tweaking CD players, but that was the reason. As far as noticed improvements in sonics, that's probably a little too subtle for my deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Interesting about the electroytics. I've read that ceramic types are (microphonic) but that modern wrap and fills aren't. The caps we typically use in networks shouldn't be susceptible to the effects of mechanical vibration. I had a conversation with Bob Crites about it a while back, who evidently had thought about it too, and so took the liberty of whacking on caps while he measured for effects -- where he found none. However, we are also dealing with things like the quality of the capacitor lead terminations, and resonances. If one looks at any older network, there is considerable potting. Electrolytics are stuffed in cardboard tubes and packed with wax, and inductors usually have so much glue on them that you can't get them off the board unless you use a chainsaw. J. Dahlquist and S. Marantz had the network board for the DQ-10 coated in wax -- and this thing sat on the outside of the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Folks, I am trying to understand the possible physics behind such claims. I will buy the "possible" microphonic explanation (however I suspect that if you ran the numbers the effect may not be audible). I am stretching things, but is there any possibility that heat dissapation might be changed (again, running the numbers may show trivial differences). I guess it boils down to physically meauring the differences (with and without) and then an old fashioned AB comparison. This may be a false alarm, since my experience has shown that many people at Audio Asylum claim to "hear" lots of things. I hate to sound grumpy; however, I beleive the biggest gains are made by concentrating your efforts on known quantities (i.e., well-recorded source material, room acoustics & speaker placement, using adequately sized amplifiers etc). -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Blue Tac or rope caulk I believe. ---------------- On 7/9/2005 12:20:42 PM mike stehr wrote: BTW, what are they using to damp electrolytic capacitors with? Blue Tac? I've used it to hold oversized capacitors in place with regards to tweaking CD players, but that was the reason. As far as noticed improvements in sonics, that's probably a little too subtle for my deaf ears. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Prove the 'problem' first and then address it. If you have an electrolytic in the signal path, it should be replaced with good-quality film unit. Forget 'bypassing' it's a chimera. If it is in the power supply or is part of the turn-on circuit, leave it alone unless a problem surfaces. Yes, many people over at AA claim to hear things...mostly voices in their heads..which is why I rarely even look at AA anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I hear dead people. Or is that the dead heads? No Disc ---------------- On 7/9/2005 2:11:32 PM boom3 wrote: Prove the 'problem' first and then address it. If you have an electrolytic in the signal path, it should be replaced with good-quality film unit. Forget 'bypassing' it's a chimera. If it is in the power supply or is part of the turn-on circuit, leave it alone unless a problem surfaces. Yes, many people over at AA claim to hear things...mostly voices in their heads..which is why I rarely even look at AA anymore... ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I dampen all sorts of components inside a DAC or CD player. Caps get small O Rings. Cannot hurt. Makes me feel good to do anything that may make digital sound a ltttle better. Prefer tube sheilds rather than dampening rings on my vintage tube stuff. Preamp seems very quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 "Caps get small O Rings." What type of O rings? The rubber types one can scrounge up at a hardware store? Seems like a good idea..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 My Wright Phono stage came with tube shields. I found the unit sounds better without them and instead with Ha-lo tube dampers installed. Just taking the tube shields was an improvment. I don't see a reason to use them unless you need the shielding. Um, how do you get the O Rings on caps that already have been soldered? I also try to dampen anything that might be microphonic or provide better sound. It's easy to overdamp and kill the dynamics too, so I guess it can hurt if you are not careful and do listening tests to see if the effect is positive or not. There is not one component in my system that has not some form of isolation, dampening, or coupling applied. Improvements of this nature are usually subtle, but somtimes very obvious. Improvements are cumulative and can take a system that is merely good, to one that is great sounding. No Disc ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:15:48 PM Audio Flynn wrote: Caps get small O Rings. Cannot hurt. Makes me feel good to do anything that may make digital sound a ltttle better. Prefer tube sheilds rather than dampening rings on my vintage tube stuff. Preamp seems very quiet. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Makes me feel good to do anything that may make digital sound a ltttle better. Gee Rick, maybe you should do something about that 10 cent electrolytic midrange cap in your Chorus'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:49:44 PM DeanG wrote: Makes me feel good to do anything that may make digital sound a ltttle better. Gee Rick, maybe you should do something about that 10 cent electrolytic midrange cap in your Chorus'! ---------------- I remember the stock crossover network in my Chorus II's, a wore out record player playing wore out records and they still had a hot mid and top end. A wore out RCA SE 6BQ5 seemed hot on top. "Um, how do you get the O Rings on caps that already have been soldered?" Well, regarding CD players you can slip the O-Ring over the top. Most caps are radial type in CDP's. If it's a axial, your gonna have to unsolder a lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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