There is NO 20 watt per channel minimum for Klipsch speakers

[Speedball]

JAZZJERK,

"Not your Buddy"

You got that right you freaking Bozo.

Now go play with yourself.

[DrWho]

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On 8/8/2005 7:20:41 PM jazman wrote:

Everything about your post tells me very loud and clear that you have not played ANY Jazz music or spent time around any "true" Jazz musicians, who are more so than not, some of the more humble individuals who walk the planet earth. Please stop pretending. Yeah, Garth Brooks, that's a Jazz reference for us who must be new to Jazz. I began collecting Jazz records when I was 13, and I was playing music at the time. All keyboards and beginning to play reeds, clarinet and sax. Your age references are completely out of place. The area I live in has highly acclaimed high school Jazz bands, as well as schools where many young people are deeply involved in the music. It's incredible how you try to cloak your lack of knowledge and understanding with this charade of words. I'd much rather you say you don't understand Jazz and leave it at that. Do me a favor and don't listen to any Jazz.

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Well I never claimed garth brooks was a jazz musician, nor did I claim opera was jazz either...Jenny however is a jazz musician and I think that was even her major in college! (jazz piano). But let's not just limit to her, I was friends with some members of the jazz band in highschool who went on to compete in some national competitions. They didn't win, but their obsession with jazz certainly rubbed off on me. Then there are my friends back in Michigan who were utterly crazy about jazz and they would play it everyday at work (and even on the phones when someone was on hold)...it does make great elevator music.

Please define some terms for me though...what do you consider as "jazz music". Surely those few years in middle/highschool playing jazz concerts weren't jazz concerts afterall. So if you can list every piece of music that qualifies as jazz, I will pick from the list and let you know which ones I've played and/or heard. Since I had little interest in the music, I won't pretend to have remembered every single title...perhaps I should go dig out some of my old music. Also, what is a true "jazz musician" that way I can tell all my jazz listening friends that they aren't listening to true jazz musicians (or so I can commend them on listening to "jazman approved musicians"). Believe me, I've had more than enough old guys trying to introduce me to the best of the best jazz and I still have never cared for it.

Btw, congrats on listening to jazz since you were 13 and congrats to all your local highschools. Do you want a cookie or a plaque or something? my highschool had/has a jazz band and I even participated with it for a bit, but quickly lost interest. Heck, my dad was in a jazz band when he was in highschool and my grandpa would play jazz piano all the time!

Just because I'm not OBSESSED with jazz and have never bothered to learn the appropriate upper class yuppy stupid termonology does not in any way indicate a lack of knowledge or understanding. Well, the only thing I don't understand is how someone enjoys it <> But why do you take offense that I don't enjoy jazz? And take offense when I listen to it too? Gosh, what else should I not listen to so as to not offend anybody? Do you like Nightwish? If not, then don't you dare listen to it and don't you dare tell me you don't like it either! (Man, I don't sound childish right now either)

And you forgot to mention again that you don't need more than 3 watts in order to enjoy your chest thumping jazz either.

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 7:28:51 PM Parrot wrote:

Keep in mind: Jazman started a deliberately provocative thread, one might call it trolling, in which he went out of his way to attack me.

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There is nothing provocative about my thread. It is a straight statement of FACT. No need to go out of my way to attack you. You're the one pushing the lie that requires the truth be told. I will repeat this one more time, and maybe you'll get it this time.

There is NO 20 watt per channel requirement for Klipsch speakers.

Klipsch out.

[DrWho]

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On 8/8/2005 7:45:52 PM jazman wrote:

There is nothing provocative about my thread. It is a straight statement of FACT. No need to go out of my way to attack you. You're the one pushing the lie that requires the truth be told. I will repeat this one more time, and maybe you'll get it this time.

There is NO 20 watt per channel requirement for Klipsch speakers.

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I seem to recall in the first post:

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"Please do not believe any of the things that are spun to you by Mr. Parrot with regard to SET amps. HE believes Cool Whip is a food.

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I'll second that though...don't believe what anyone on these forums has to say unless you've gotten to know them personaly and they have proven a credible source. Ironically though, parrot has never made any claims, just referenced and posted other articles...

[thebes]

Faith and Begorrah, there must be a lot of Irish here, because it's a good old fashioned donneybrook a brewin.

Paul appears to be correct as far as Klipsch advertising goes, but hell when's the last time anybody ever believed in advertising. Klipsch are so efficient you can power them with a candle placed in the next room. My friends at the US Gealogical Survey tell me they routinely get ready to issue eathquake alerts only to find out it's just some rocker cranking their Klipsch. You are also usually much more nuanced in dealing with a controversial subject than to baldly insult jazz, and although I know you listen primarily to classical, I'm sure a perusal of your collectino would elicit a jazz lp or two.

Alan, aside from Barry Manilow and Wayne Newton, there is no such thing as bad music. Wouldn't suprise me to catch you inadvertantly humming along to elevator music from time-to-time. I've posted literally dozens of music threads in this place and the breath and various tastes in music on this forum are a wonder to behold. My own personal tastes may be eclectic, but that's because I deliberatly choose not to take an elitist view of music, if anything was meant for, and good for, the masses, music is (gotta work on my sentence structure). Music, like life, is a journey, and you never know what's around the corner.

So my take is what ever floats your boat in music and or equipment. Once you've learned a little, like I have from the nice folks here, you can go off on your own and take your gear or your music in any direction you desire.

Oh yeah, orchestral rock, think Moody Blues "Days of Future Passed" and of course don't forget all the violins Motown was always using.

[Parrot]

From PWK's ad:

"To do it requires no more than 60 watts. Each speaker, being horn loaded, requires only a 20 watt amplifier."

Please note the word "requires." In the brochure, it *suggests* 20W minimum, which is I suppose a more polite way of saying it.

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 7:56:10 PM Parrot wrote:

From PWK's ad:

"To do it requires no more than 60 watts. Each speaker, being horn loaded, requires only a 20 watt amplifier."

Please note the word "requires." In the brochure, it *suggests* 20W minimum, which is I suppose a more polite way of saying it.

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May I borrow from Thebes post;

......"when's the last time anybody ever believed in advertising. Klipsch are so efficient you can power them with a candle placed in the next room."

In an effort to save additional words, Please refer to the subject of this thread!

Klipsch out.

[Parrot]

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On 8/8/2005 8:08:33 PM jazman wrote:

Klipsch are so efficient you can power them with a candle placed in the next room.

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Um, Jazman, Thebes was kidding!

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 8:13:10 PM Parrot wrote:

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On 8/8/2005 8:08:33 PM jazman wrote:

Klipsch are so efficient you can power them with a candle placed in the next room.

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Um, Jazman, Thebes was kidding!

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Oh my, ..............no sh!t??????????????????? I didn't think you'd bite on that one, but the answer is stilllllllllll.............................

Please refer to the subject of this thread.

Klipsch out.

[Allan Songer]

Hey Edmund, check out Dr. Who's latest: HE WANTS A LIST OF SONGS THAT ARE JAZZ SONGS to see if he's played any.

I haven't laughed this hard in a long time.

Enough is ENOUGH!!!

[thebes]

Um, guys I'm curious, was this SET stuff around and as refined as it is today when Paul Klipsch was inventing things like the Khorn, and did he ever refer to it? Pardon my ignorance, but it's one of my specialities.

In other words would his power assumptions (surely a generality relating to the broad specturm of the various type of amps etc. available at the time), have driven some of the thinking behind the advertising?

Also, I have played with one of those 7 watt class T el-cheapos and it certainly pushed a lot of sound through the KG's I was using it on. I haven't heard SET yet, but this little jobber could definetly hurt your hearing.

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 8:22:05 PM Allan Songer wrote:

Hey Edmund, check out Dr. Who's latest: HE WANTS A LIST OF SONGS THAT ARE JAZZ SONGS to see if he's played any.

I haven't laughed this hard in a long time.

Enough is ENOUGH!!!

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Allan,

Ditto.

I could not dignify that with a response. I'm hoping he will realize it and go away.

Klipsch out.

[anarchist]

Alrighty,

After much contemplation and reviewing exactly what Jazman has been stating (repeatedly), I think we should all agree there is NO 20 WATT MINIMUM REQUIRED for KLIPSCH speakers. Paul is wrong if he suggests there is a REQUIRED MINIMUM.

An analogy may serve well and end this pointless discussion where no one has yet suggested the best Henderson album to listen to despite my earnest question:

To run Windows XP only REQUIRES 128 MB of RAM. Microsoft SUGGESTS 256MB minimum. It WILL run on 128MB but you will want to kill yourself unless you double Microsoft's recommendation and use 512MB.

Klipsch speakers will run on anything greater than a WATT. You may be just as disappointed in the experience if you are seeking higher SPL's hence the suggested minimum of 20 WATTS. I feel 14 WATTS is sufficient for the volume levels I wish to experience (in an easy listening mode.)

Easy to understand and no insults necessary.

[PrestonTom]

Another perspective, and one that I will take some grief about ......

I just came home from work, which by the way pertains to research in auditory perception and what do I find. Well, I log on and there is just a bunch of hostile (and not always very well-informed) exchanges going on. Why? At this point there is not much being communicated. There actually are some interesting issues regarding amplifier requirements for high efficiency speakers, but very little of that is actually being discussed. This is unfortunate since there are some regular contributers who are quite knowlegeable about these issues.

Look at yourselves. Do you think anyone would want to contribute in this environment? There is a chance for an interesting exchange, a chance to learn. However, that chance has been wasted. The topic has now degraded to one of hero worship ("PWK says this or that" & under what context) and to bolstering one's ego by criticizing others. Or judging someone or group by the music they listen to.

We are so quick to judge others .... I guess an anonymous forum encourages that.

Why? .... why, why, why?

Just a thought,

-Tom

[Allan Songer]

You can't go wrong with any of Joe Herderson's Blue Note or early Milestone LPs, but if you are going pick one you might as well start at the beginning. I can't think of any other "debut" LP where a player hit the ground running as hard as Joe Henderson did here:

BUY HERE:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000IL25/qid=1123551227/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2738034-1952053?v=glance&s=music

The original version of Kenny Dorham's standard "Blue Bossa" is the first cut:

http://www.content.loudeye.com/scripts/hurl.exe?clipid=020081401010706900&cid=600111

You'll also find Henderson's "Recorda Me," another original that has become a standard:

http://www.content.loudeye.com/scripts/hurl.exe?clipid=020081401040706900&cid=600111

[anarchist]

Thanks Allan. I will pick it up. Listened to some of the samples (now I know where to find them) and I like what I heard although I don't want to be overly enthusiastic based on brief 1 minute bits.

It is not something you would play very loud IMO and I still think the jazz experience is best when you watch it live but I will listen to it on the Khorns and provide my honest assessment. Thanks for the help.

PS> The first cut was very familiar for some reason. I really like the recorda me sample.

[garymd]

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On 8/8/2005 8:30:33 PM Anarchist wrote:

An analogy may serve well and end this pointless discussion where no one has yet suggested the best Henderson album to listen to despite my earnest question:

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My favorite is "Mode For Joe" with Lee Morgan, Curtis Fuller, Bobby Hutcherson, Cedar Walton, Ron Carter and Joe Chambers.

Edit: My favorite Joe Henderson album is Duke Pearson's Wahoo.

[Parrot]

The River-Merchant's Wife: A Letter

While my hair was still cut straight across my forehead

I played about the front gate, pulling flowers.

You came by on bamboo stilts, playing horse,

You walked about my seat, playing with blue plums.

And we went on living in the village of Chokan:

Two small people, without dislike or suspicion.

At fourteen I married My Lord you.

I never laughed, being bashful.

Lowering my head, I looked at the wall.

Called to, a thousand times, I never looked back.

At fifteen I stopped scowling,

I desired my dust to be mingled with yours

Forever and forever and forever.

Why should I climb the lookout?

At sixteen you departed,

You went into far Ku-to-en, by the river of swirling eddies,

And you have been gone five months.

The monkeys make sorrowful noise overhead.

You dragged your feet when you went out.

By the gate now, the moss is grown, the different mosses,

Too deep to clear them away!

The leaves fall early this autumn, in wind.

The paired butterflies are already yellow with August

Over the grass in the West garden;

They hurt me. I grow older.

If you are coming down through the narrows of the river Kiang,

Please let me know beforehand,

And I will come out to meet you

As far as Cho-fo-Sa.

-- Ezra Pound

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 8:30:33 PM Anarchist wrote:

Alrighty,

After much contemplation and reviewing exactly what Jazman has been stating (repeatedly), I think we should all agree there is NO 20 WATT MINIMUM REQUIRED for KLIPSCH speakers. Paul is wrong if he suggests there is a REQUIRED MINIMUM.

An analogy may serve well and end this pointless discussion where no one has yet suggested the best Henderson album to listen to despite my earnest question:

To run Windows XP only REQUIRES 128 MB of RAM. Microsoft SUGGESTS 256MB minimum. It WILL run on 128MB but you will want to kill yourself unless you double Microsoft's recommendation and use 512MB.

Klipsch speakers will run on anything greater than a WATT. You may be just as disappointed in the experience if you are seeking higher SPL's hence the suggested minimum of 20 WATTS. I feel 14 WATTS is sufficient for the volume levels I wish to experience (in an easy listening mode.)

Easy to understand and no insults necessary.

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I'm amazed that it only took four pages to get to this point. The Windows analogy really does not fit the reality of audio. To refer back to Thebes statement of a low powered digital amp being loud enough to hurt his ears is another hint. Once you can begin to understand that there are quality amps capable of providing a good 1st watt, and that Klipsch speakers, among others, are capable of utlizing that first watt fairly effectively, it could possibly open the mind to many other revelations. Am I only referring to a SET amp? No. Stop looking at the numbers as a barrier, and begin to use your ears. Whether you like it or not is each individuals call. But the useless quotation of numbers is pretty much just that.

I recently enjoyed reading something written by the designer of my ZYX phono cartridge, Hisayoshi Nakatsuka, also president of ZYX CO., Ltd. Japan.

What's Real Sound? What's High End Audio?

Proposition from a phono-cartridge Designer

Sound, it is really a miracle. I often took in sounds having completely different atmosphere through comparison test of amplifiers and cartridges designed to have similar frequency and distortion (as) each other. Sometime(s) a low power tube amplifier produced more powerful but deliate and vivid sounds than a solid state amplifier supposed to have better response data. Thus, a mystery and esoteric exist in sound, which cannot (be) described only by charateristic data.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That thought, I'm sure will be diffiult for many of you to digest. Maybe one day it will have meaning. His cartridges are going to give a lot of weight to what he has to say.

Please refer back to the subject of this thread for those who don't get it.

Klipsch out.

[Allan Songer]

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On 8/8/2005 8:48:05 PM Anarchist wrote:

It is not something you would play very loud IMO and I still think the jazz experience is best when you watch it live but I will listen to it on the Khorns and provide my honest assessment. Thanks for the help.

PS> The first cut was very familiar for some reason. I really like the recorda me sample.----------------

OH NO!! PLEASE play this album LOUD--at 95db it starts coming into it's own. It is such an awful misconception that this music should be played softly. If you ever sat ten feet from Joe Henderson blowing in a club you would know right away that there would be NO WAY to carry on some sore of conversation with your table mates!

"Blue Bossa" has probably been recorded at least 100 times--it's no wonder it is familiar to you!!