Is HT better than 2(3)-channel for music?

[intotubes]

The majority of discussions here seem to be about HT set ups. ie. multiple Klipsch speakers, 5, 6, 7 or more channel amps. Isn't music recorded in 2 channel stereo? Do CD's now contain surround sound information? If so how is it decoded? Most CD players I've seen only have L & R RCA outputs. Is the surround sound synthesized by the surround processor? Is it simply more speakers spread about the room playing a stereo signal?

I'm trying to understand this. What sounds better?

My Vintage integrated has a center channel but I think its just a mono signal meant to "fill in the hole" that some thought existed in the early days of stereo. I've read about a derived center channel from the pos. of both L & R signals that sort of acts like a surround channel but this is meant to be placed behind the listener.

-Mark

[Frzninvt]

I just transitioned to HT from a 2-channel setup around 2000, while my NAD T-163 has the ability to run in 2-channel mode at the press of a button, I must say it sounds so much better with all the speakers playing. You are part of the listening environment. I could not go back to just two speakers, it sounds weak and uninvolving. I would have to have at least mains with a center channel and subwoofers to be happy.

I am talking about the playback of standard CD's and my Satellite Dish audio, not digital playback.

[intotubes]

So you would characterize your "HT" listening environment as stereo with multiple speakers. Correct?

[Fish]

For standard cd's 2 ch(with subs) is the only way I listen.For dvd concerts 5.1 is great,for dvd-audio or sacd some 5.1 disc sound great and a few others are better in 2ch.

[Frzninvt]

Yes the two channels are matrixed into 7 channels, you still the channel to channel effects and pans across the front as originally recorded.

Even when I had a two channel system I was running 4 speakers and a passive subwoofer.

[colterphoto1]

I sit firmly on the fence on this one. I have Yamaha RXV2400 and Cornwalls all the way round. For serious music listening, I prefer the purity of 2 ch, with just the Yamaha YPAO eq circuit in place. Only occasionally do I engage the 7-channel stereo and even rarer do I use the DSP modes, which are excellent in the Yamaha. I might experiement with them more now that I have a perfectly balanced timbre system.

Imho, any DSP should be used sparingly, the reverb and delays can overwhelm the music. Kind of like the first time you had wysiwyg computer and used all the fonts at once on a single document. Too much of a good thing can kill the spirit of the music. I mostly use the Jazz Club and Church modes for listening to Jazz or band music. NEVER rock and roll, there's enough delay there already.

Michael

[intotubes]

OK, I'm starting to get the picture. For music (not DVD concerts), 2 ch is best with multiple speakers or only 2 for "purity". For movies or other media digitally encoded for surround listening, a surround processor and 5.1 or larger is the preferred method.

I was getting the impression that most here listened to stereo music with 6 or 7 speakers. I thought maybe I was missing out on something good. Couldn't quite figure out what it was though. My 2 CW's and Fisher integrated sound sooo good. Can it really get much better?

-Mark

[cjgeraci]

Mark, I think it just depends on the quality of the DSP or processor being used. As Michael pointed out, some DSP modes throw in layers of reverb and delay with respect to the surround speakers or even with some, the front center speaker - when running a matrixed 5.1 (or higher) off of a 2-channel sources. I am not a big fan of the matrixed modes from the mass market receivers that I have heard.

However........some processors are better than others (i.e. more musical) in taking a two channel signal and realistically matrixing it into five or six channels. Some separate prepros, such as Lexicon, are known for their nice matrixing for music, and that was one of the reason why I bought my Classe prepro. I think my matrixed channels, for music, sound pretty realistic, clean and clear (and musical) - and they are representations of what the processor thinks should be happening for the center and rear channels. Again, true matrixed modes are what the processor thinks should be happening for the front, side surround, and rear surround channels (if running 7.1).

There are times that I listen to 2-channel, but there are also times that I enjoy a great matrixed two-channel to 5.1 (for music) or even a 4.l. A larger room also helps you minimize interference issues among the speakers. My setup also allows me to run a mirrored two-channel (front 2-channel and rear matching 2-channel) off of the same tube preamp, and that can also sound great.

So, there are some benefits to listening to matrixed music in a large room, under certain circumstances.

Carl.

[colterphoto1]

Oh, now you bring up DVD concerts.. Whole new ball park dude! How could I have forgotten that genre of music, it's about 1/2 my total DVD collection. The mix on some of these is tremendous, with LCR giving a great soundstage and the surrounds with hall effects and audience noise putting you squarely 10th row center. With many, it's just like being there and watching/listening with just 2 channels would be like, I dunno, shaking hands with woolen mittens on (for lack of more PC analogy).

If you like live concerts and plan on building a DVD concert collection, you must go multi channel. I've gotten to the age where as bands come around, instead of paying the rape charge for tickets, I just spend about 1/4 the cost of a concert and buy their DVD. There are some truly wonderful ones out there. Check out the Music and DVD forum for many reviews on top rated concert DVD's. Or SEARCH for DVD threads, there are lots.

Michael

[intotubes]

Thanks Michael. I assumed a 5.1 or larger would do a DVD concert justice. I will have use woolen mittens for a while.

The main question was for 2 ch music. I was under the mistaken impression that most here used their multi-channel capabilities to listen to music. That's what confounded me. I have received some great info/opinions here. I think I have a better than average set up for music. I'll have to suffer through 2 ch DVD's until I can afford to upgrade (read convince spouse).[]

[colterphoto1]

So we'll start looking for a pair of local Cornwalls or Heresies for ya then, right?

Remember, flowers do wonders!

Michael

[intotubes]

LOL. Not so fast my man. We JUST bought a new house. Move in next weekend. That has sucked up ALL discrecionary income for a little while. I am actually very happy with what I've got. Heck, I just got my cherished Cornwalls a couple months ago, if that. I still can't believe she let me spring for that, being we are a single income family. That was a large expense just for my selfish pleasure.

[colterphoto1]

Sorry, enjoy what you have. A home, wife and Cornwalls. Sounds pretty perfect to me.

More will be revealed later.

Michael

[J.4knee]

Actually %90 of my listening is 2CH music. I acquired the HT receiver as my main source of amplification to facilitate the move into HT. For 2 channel my Yamaha does a fairly decent job. I won't lie this is not my final rig but it fills the bill for now. My end rig now is looking like probably a Parasound HALO Pre/Pro and Mac 7 and 2 channel amps. That way I can use a little trick I learned from my Yamaha, which are the front effects channels. I had them set up for a while and it really give a great sound stage for multichannel use. Musically though my favorite so far is multichannel SACD, where my Denon player is doing the decoding. It provides a slightly smoother sound than say DVD A using the Yamaha to decode. If by some chance the music gods smile on me and I mysteriously acquire more space I will probably set up a separate 2 Ch rig as well. The HT offers so much more in terms of versatility in the use of the system so I am pleased I made the move to HT.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[MrMcGoo]

"Stereo" should be three channels across the front. Paul Klipsch had a three channel system before modern processors were available.

Prologic IIx and Logic 7 do a good job. I use 8x over sampling and PL IIx to listen to CDs. A regular CD sounds like **** now.

A properly designed HT can do an excellent job with both music and HT.

Bill

[SCOOTERDOG]

"LOL. Not so fast my man. We JUST bought a new house. Move in next

weekend. That has sucked up ALL discrecionary income for a little while."

What is discrecionary income? I spend all of mine on my system so I have no discrecionary income.[]

[jdm56]

Most of my music listening is with 2-channel CD's, and most of the time, I listen to those through the Dolby Pro Logic II circuit of my receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi). But sometimes, with some music, straight 2-channel stereo sounds better. And sometimes, like with electronica or trance, 7-channel stereo is awesome. Classic jazz sounds tremendous with the jazz mode processing. Classical sounds more lifelike through the "classical" DSP mode. And so on.

The amazing thing to me is how much better the dsp processing is now than it was 10-15 years ago. My first A/V pre-pro was a Sony TA-E1000ES. An awesome unit for it's time and price, but it's surround modes were worthless except for use with classical music. My Pioneer receiver's surround processing is much, much better. Although I like the concept of "pure", unprocessed 2-channel reproduction, I'd have a hard time going back.

[jheis]

OK, I'm starting to get the picture. For music

(not DVD concerts), 2 ch is best with multiple speakers or only 2 for

"purity". For movies or other media digitally encoded for surround

listening, a surround processor and 5.1 or larger is the preferred

method.

I was getting the impression that most here listened to

stereo music with 6 or 7 speakers. I thought maybe I was missing out on

something good. Couldn't quite figure out what it was though. My 2 CW's

and Fisher integrated sound sooo good. Can it really get much better?

-Mark

Yeah.

The 2 channel purists may object, but stereo coming out of a pair of

LaScala fronts, Heresy surrounds, and Cornwall rears and driven by separate amps is truly

something to behold. Then, of course, I can also turn on the center

channel amp that drives the RC-7 (mono) and add a bit more presence to

the front "soundstage."