Has anyone compared the RF-7's to other speakers in that pric range, Paradigm Studio 100, PSB Stratus Gold...etc

[imperfectcircle25]

I own a pair of RF-7's that I use in a basement system and tehy are quite good. They do lack the refinement of my Neat Acoustics Vito speakers that I have in the main system, but are better in some areas such as dynamics, loudness, and ability to rock. I am just curious if anyone has compared thier RF-7's to similarly priced speakers on the market, mainly the Paradigm Studio 100 and Psb Stratus Goldi?? I recently heard the Paradigms at a local dealer and i must say i was extremely impressed with them, they definitly were much more refined and nuetral compared to the RF-7's, but they couldnt keep up with the dynamics and ability to rock of the RF-7's. Anyone had any similar experiences? I would love to hear the PSB Stratus Goldi and the Dynaudio Audience 82's I have heard lots of great stuff bout both of them. Anyone else compared their RF-7's to any of these speakers in their price class?? To me it seems like the RF-7's are big, bold and a little rough around the edges while the Paradigms were more of a precision instrument?? I think the Klipsch's still may be the way to go for my musical taste (metal, hardcore, hard rock, punk, alternative...etc) but the Paradigms have opened my eyes that there are alot of very good speakers in the $2500 range.

[MrMcGoo]

It "sounds" like you have never heard the RF-7s perform at their best. In order to sound their best, the RF-7s require an amp that can handled their impedance dip to 2.8 ohms. Also, the crossovers can be tweaked to improve the sound to the point that takes them to the next level.

You could tweak the Paradigms for a year and you will never get the dynamics needed for action movies. The "refinement" you seem to like is also a problem- it lacks realism. The "you are there" or live sound is not "refined", it is in your face. I have never heard a "refined" explosion or cannon shot, but I have heard realisitc explosions.

The RF-7s are so accurate that you can easily tell the difference between a sound designer that produces excellent sound tracks and the sound designer that is second rate. "Refined" speakers gloss over poor sound quality. Klipsch speakers are honest; they show you the bad sound along with the good.

Bill

[Frzninvt]

Bill, I could not of said it better.

[DrWho]

I'm not sure I would ever consider the RF-7's to be an accurate speaker

- yes, more accurate than a lot of speakers, but certainly not even

close to perfect or even the best for the money. They do however

present a "big" "clear" sound that makes them great for rocking out -

and that's what I want in a speaker and that's why I love the klipsch

sound. If you're not going to be listening at loud full volumes, then I

would say there are better options out there than the RF-7's.

[thirdeye]

For the money and material the 7's are pretty decent, but I find the

35's far better, I owned Cornwalls, 7's, & 35's the 35's are my

favorite, and sound much more smooth than the 7's with the klipsch

characteristic.... I just put a pair of fairly Extreme Crossovers

replacing the ones in my friends pair of RF3's this week, they

consisted of Alpha core goertz Inductors(12ga), Solen fast caps

througout, and an eagle resistor these were all Exaclty the same values

as the original cheap computer grade crossovers yanked out of the 3's,

but these would not fit internally in the speaker so they are outboard

and now these speakers just dominate any of these speakers, I wish I

could do it to my 35's but being currently in production klipsch will

not give me the schematic as they did give me it for the 3's, sure you

could do the same treatment to the 7's but not sure it will have the

same smooth and tame results with great detail and not Blaring at you.

Funny thing is the 3's became even more efficient, Bass we swear went

from the Single Note 37hz to a like 3 Layer sounding bass down to the

low 30's at least, very much opened these suckers up, and they did give

us a reminder of the 7's but with far less forwardness.

P.S. I could be wrong "Imperfectcircle" But from your name I have a

pretty good guess I listen very similar as you, and APC has some of the

best recordings ever so take refinement from people with a grain of

salt.

[Speedball]

I gave up a 4 month old pair of Paradigm Studio 40's to go with RF7's and to me the sound is much better. Mostly the 40's tweeters were too shrill for my taste.

[thirdeye]

Don't get me wrong my comparisons were on other klipsch, but I would

never buy paradigm's... I tried them actually side by side with klipsch

anything and talk about Supressed/compressed sound. Yeah the 7's are

better than the large paradigm towers and I heard them head to head at

a local dealer.

[Frzninvt]

Solen's arent Extreme High End, they are just better than average. Auricap Theta's, Hovlands, and Jensen PIO's are easily superior in quality and performance. All you did was make them somewhat better than factory, Extreme High End costs more!

You don't need a schematic just pull the PCB and get the values off the caps or off the printed circuit on the PCB.

[Deang]

imperfectcircle25 -- I thought you gave up the RF-7. I could of swore you said you were throwing in the towel and going in a different direction? Your post is very similiar to the one you posted a few months ago, and after getting loads of different advice you said you were giving up and dumping them.

Like all the upper end of the Klipsch speakers, the RF-7 is worthy of the best in sources and power. They are extremely intolerant of any distortion artifacts in the chain and will punish you if you cheat on them. Garbage in = garbage out -- it's just that simple. We went through all this before. At any rate, they are bit hot on top and will exhibit some stridency when pushed using Redbook. If you want the top knocked down just a wee bit and a smoother sound you'll need to mod the networks and improve the parts quality.

At that price point and a bit higher -- my opinion is that spending money on any other speaker is a waste.

[thirdeye]

As the attack was made I will fire back, Solen sounded better than the

Hovlands in this circuit, for the Bass... It also is unnecessary to

have something like that in the bass circuit we found no real

difference, also the Hovlands sound terrible to me in the klipsch horn

circuit as I learned my lesson with a network Dean built me and really

did not like the character at all to dry , and YES SIR jensens are the

BEST I have heard and just installed them in my Cary amp, but

Unfortunatly the values needed in the Circuit for the 3's were not

available from where I found them, and would be about the size of

Coffee cans if they were made... Now beyond that, Trust me these

suckers FAR, FAR surpase in sound and quality of what klipsch had

in there believe me, not even close.. Hell klipsch probably pays about

3 dollars total for the cheap bobbin inductors and the 12 cent

capacitors that were used, I can find them at parts express believe it

or not. Now all that being said, Yes indeed we might pull out the old

Theta's or Jensens and Stack the caps like a bypass stack to hit the

values not available, but this will get very expensive, and possibly

not a huge improvement due to the character of how smooth and detailed

the speaker is right now and the fact if you have ever heard the Copper

Ribbon Inductors from Alpha, Forget it, I had inductors that cost 4

times the price of these which were 10 or 8 gauge from North creek

music and these are just nicer in my opinion. Anyway thanks for the

concern, but truth is Solens work very Well especially in a speaker of

this caliber, now I would again emphasis sure, we could get a warmer

sound with the jensens, but not sure its what we were looking for right

now, and we wanted to simply see if the circuit worked all together,

well it did, and I would say its 100 times better and made a 1000.00

pair of speakers sound like a 7000.00 pair.. but I really want to get a

hold of the "Zu Definitions" they look like the speaker to be had if I

am gonna spend any more money to go up, even the K-horns modified at

8000.00 a pair I do not think can compete.

As for the tearing apart the 35's to trace and find values, I decided

that its just easier to test on the 3's and it is worth it, but am not

going to get into the 35's for now, and as for the 7's modifying the

circuit If I remember it just had far to many components and would be

pretty hi cost I don't remember though,,,,, So the 7's at that point just go out of limit in

what they are worth to me personally.

I am just having fun on the thread, I take nothing to serious, just

sound, and I have found the mistakes with klipsch for my personal

taste, so you guys might be on a different klipsch planet :+)

[Deang]

Charles wasn't attacking you, but taking exception to your labeling of the Solens as "Extreme High End". I actually agree with Charles, but do find your assessment interesting.

[thirdeye]

Sorry, I know it was not meant as an attack in any kinda direct way, just found

it as a good excuse to give my assessment of the parts... I guess if we

all believed in mark levinson amps being better sounding than anything

on the planet vs. trying the correct stuff for the situation nobody

would know that there are better amps and cheaper for a specific use..

same with anything in audio. In my opinion same with many of klipschs

lower tier speakers beating out the bigger brothers.

[tillmbil]

this is interesting. If the 35's are good , have you heard the RF-5's? What do you think of them? Dean, do you make a crossover for the RF-5's, and what would they cost. They would have to be internal though.

As for the Paradigm, when I bought the RF-5's I first spent countless hours listening to a complete Paradigm setup played through all McIntosh separates. I was most impressed with their 1,000 watt sub woofer. At least I believe it was a Paradigm sub woofer. Shook the room and sounded awsome. Anyway, after many demo hour's, inlcuding MB Quarts, I just could not see them sounding better than the Klipsch. Most of it was the openess of the Klipsch and the big sound. The 100's just seemed to direct, they did not seem to fill the room. Just my opinion.

[thirdeye]

Actually Not really, I did not get a lot of time with the Rf5's .. I

did get a little of them at a dealer, but not extensivley at home like

the others... Not sure if the 5's have the same driver as the 7's horn

to be honest, but I do believe the 5's share the exact same drivers

that were in the discontinued 3's, the 8" that is. I wanted to get a

hold of 5's as my thoughts are in line with yours and they might be a

very good medium for the buck vs. the 7's... However the 3's, 5's, 7's

were all of the same series, just the 3's got replaced by the 35's but

everything is a different animal in the 35's, totally new drivers,

cabinetry, and damping material inside, and the crossovers... the 35's

vs. the 3's do sound a little more refined(that stupid word, but ....)

Kinda smoother in the high's, but the 3's almost were a little muddier,

not bad but you get the point. Now with the 3's new crossover they

easily best the 35's... The 3's have old type Yellow foam like Carpet

padding in them for damping material, the newer reference series have

Egg crate gray audio style damping, not sure it makes any kinda

difference but thats what is going on, Also the newer stuff uses the

horn intergrated right into the baffle of the front cabinet, the 3's,

5's , 7's are of the old style horns, which are just a single unit as a

conventional horn that screws in and out just like you think it

would... The cabinet is more Finished and a little bit more solid on

the 35's than the 3's or 7's I have pulled apart, slightly different

and more finished construction, yes refined.

[MrMcGoo]

I'm not sure I would ever consider the RF-7's to be an accurate speaker - yes, more accurate than a lot of speakers, but certainly not even close to perfect or even the best for the money. They do however present a "big" "clear" sound that makes them great for rocking out - and that's what I want in a speaker and that's why I love the klipsch sound. If you're not going to be listening at loud full volumes, then I would say there are better options out there than the RF-7's.

DrWho,

My Reference 7 system is accurate within reason. The 7s (by themslves) are not accurate as you assert. However, in a modern SYSTEM they can be resonably accurate. For example, the RF-7s have an impedance dip around 9.9 khz that makes them run hot at that frequency. Between DeanG's crossover and advanced acoustic room correction technology, that peak is non-existent.

BTW, the RTAs of the RF-7s by themselves look quite good. With room correction, the RTA looks even better and the sound is improved IMO.

Bill

[tillmbil]

All right, so where is Dean when you ask him a question? I guess the answer will come eventually. I am going to move the Rf-5's to my two channel system area one day and see how they compare to the CW's. I was hoping to get a Merlin, and try them with it and the M IV's, but that looks a ways off at this point.

Bought a darn SX1250 for my son and the d** thing plays the left channel intermitently. Have to turn the volume way up for it to come on, and then if you turn it down too low it cuts back out. What a crapper.

[thirdeye]

tillmbil

The only way the cornwall will compete with the 5's on bass is if you

have them dead in the corner angled, just like a K-horn from my

experiance, but put the 5's about 20" off the backwall and the back

corner from the sidewall about 15-16" with about a 1.5" toe in,

which would put your front corner about 17.5" from the sidewall this

would be a good measurement if your sidwalls are about 15ft

apart, Also, all the reference series I have heard are best when

they are on an Angle, so the front is on the spikes and the back feet

are with just the little rubber feet or none at all so that it slopes

back, try it trust me... I think they will beat the cornwalls overall

you may be suprised, but I can guarantee the punch will be much deeper

and faster from the 5's.

Hey, by the way great little turntable the mmf7, I have one and love

it, near perfect, I almost went up to the nottingham which has a slight

edge but not without a very expensive cartridge, and I only paid 400.00

for the mmf7!

[DrWho]

I'm not sure I would ever

consider the RF-7's to be an accurate speaker - yes, more accurate than

a lot of speakers, but certainly not even close to perfect or even the

best for the money. They do however present a "big" "clear" sound that

makes them great for rocking out - and that's what I want in a speaker

and that's why I love the klipsch sound. If you're not going to be

listening at loud full volumes, then I would say there are better

options out there than the RF-7's.

My Reference 7

system is accurate within reason. The 7s (by themslves) are not

accurate as you assert. However, in a modern SYSTEM they can be

resonably accurate. For example, the RF-7s have an impedance dip around

9.9 khz that makes them run hot at that frequency. Between DeanG's

crossover and advanced acoustic room correction technology, that peak

is non-existent.

BTW, the RTAs of the RF-7s by themselves look

quite good. With room correction, the RTA looks even better and the

sound is improved IMO.

Now compare that to a nice pair of studio monitors (for $2500 there's

lots of good options) - It's a bit extreme but that's the comparison I

make for accuracy. In other words, nobody in their right mind would

consider using RF-7's in the studio [] To continue the analogy I

would claim the boring sounding Paradigms might be a better option than

the RF7 for studio use. I've never hard the paradigms in question so

perhaps I'm way of my rocker - just going off reviews I've read. That

said, I would totally choose the RF-7's over any other speaker simply

for its shear dynamic capabilities and big clear sound.

[MrMcGoo]

Just as no one would use RF-7s as near field studio monitors, I would not use studio monitors in any home theater. Rinky-dink monitors, even expensive monitors, are not the best home theater speakers for large rooms (>3000 cu ft) IMO. The Reference 7s should be judged as what they are, very dynamic home theater speakers that can make excellent music.

When the explosions go off in movies, the 90 pound RF-7s can explode with the best of them. The 30 pound monitors go burp as they suffer from power compression and lack of dynamics.

Accuracy means different things to different people. My view of accuracy is representational faithfulness. I.e., what you see and hear in movies is as close as possible to what you see and hear in a good (Klipsch) commercial theater without the noise from the audience.

Bill

[whell]

I had a parade of speakers through my living room that included Time Windows, Magnepans, KEF's, Monitor Audio's, RF-3's and finally RF-7's. The speakers that I auditioned are reflective of the price range that I am limited to, and the RF-7's ended up being way up on the very high end of that range when I bought them used in a local sale.

My listening room has the ability to grab most of the sound reproduced from my system and strangle it to death. In that enviornment, and after experiementing some with positioning and amplification, the RF-7's were the clear winner in my opinion. The other speakers sounded like small little voices in the wilderness in comparison.

But that's in my room, with my system. YMMV.