Now I'm completely confused

[dragonfyr]

Duke has been mentioning this for days!, weeks, months, ...maybe longer! []

Crown has several models for a start.

Also, an easy fix to the fan noise is to mount the amps in an enclosed cabinet with adequate labyrinth venting for air exchange and flow.

[cjgeraci]

My question was not actually directed towards Crowns - since I consider Crowns a given. Any suggestions for other pro equip manufacturers besides Crown or QSC???

Carl.

PS. I have read some interesting spirited debates in pro audio forums about Crown v. QSC preferences - with mixed results. I have not yet heard Crowns in a home theater setup. Hopefully, I can hear Duke's setup someday....... would love to hear some nice Crowns.

[dragonfyr]

Mackie makes a few (although I have not worked with them) and Crest, but most of the other "pro" gear is aimed at high output at lower cost at the expense of many factors, and thus I tend to avoid them.

[Duke Spinner]

Another point to mention ......

most SS equipment runs hottest ...........at 25% power , or thereabouts

Sooooooo .... crank'er up .........[]

[Duke Spinner]

My question was not actually directed towards

Crowns - since I consider Crowns a given. Any suggestions for

other pro equip manufacturers besides Crown or QSC???

Carl.

PS.

I have read some interesting spirited debates in pro audio forums about

Crown v. QSC preferences - with mixed results. I have not

yet heard Crowns in a home theater setup. Hopefully, I can hear

Duke's setup someday....... would love to hear some nice Crowns.

DJK is sold on BGW

i find the US made Crest stuff great amps, warmer sounding than anyltical Crown

QSC PLX ..... nice amp

Crown K-1, K-2 no fan .....

and , yes you have to be carefull of models .....the Crest Cx series,

the Crown CE, XL, XLS, and i don't know what QSC models .....are

Imported, to be sold at a price point more interested in $$/ watt

[DrWho]

"...or you can just pick a "pro amp" that

doesn't have any fans...you might spend a little bit extra, but those

amps generally sound better anyway."

Dr. Who - I do not recall

your background. Tried to do the searching thing, but you

know how easy (not) the latest searching engine is in

here.......

If you have had experience dealing with pro

audio equipment, then share the wealth. From my

personal experience, these QSC PLXs sound pretty good to me - but

yes - they have fans. Since Tom was interested in pro

gear generally, what fanless pro amps should he consider that sound

better than QSC amps (and for a little bit extra)?

Perhaps I should mention that there is nothing inheritantly wrong with

amps that use fans...perhaps I should say that most amp designs that

don't have fans tend to sound very good. Not all, but most. I'm

currently using a cheapy XLS 402 right now for subwoofer duty, but have

connected it to Chorus II's and Marantz 940's just to see what it

sounds like and it's far from crappy (at least better than my denon

1803 or Sherwood 6108 recievers).

As far as my background goes, I'll try to sum it up: for over 13 years

now I've been doing live mixing (started when I was 8 and I'm 21

now)...includes theatrical productions, sympony/choir concerts, rock

bands (both small and large venue), weddings, etc etc..For the last 7

years or so I've been active in studio work and even worked in an

analog mastering studio for a few years, which I even took over for a

year and converted into a multi-channel digital studio. A couple years

ago I did my first official studio recording gig for a band called

Finding Philip which actually made radio airplay in southern illinois -

I can provide mp3's for anyone interested (definetly not my favorite

style of music).

I've mixed on too many systems to remember what all was being used

(sometimes I designed them, or other times a whole system was put down

in front of me and I was given 20 minutes to get it dialed in). The

ones that stick out in my mind though are the systems running crown

amps....either the people choosing crown had good taste which carried

out into the rest of the system design, or the amps just plain always

sound good. QSC would be a real strong second (only cuz I've had 2 bad

experiences with amps blowing on me). I would claim that I prefer the

"crown sound" more, but I highly doubt if I would be able to tell the

difference in a blind ABX test []

When it comes down to it, you've just got to sit down and listen to the

bloody amplifier - of course there are certain inherant advantages to

any of the topologies available and it's fun to discuss them, but the

actual implementation of those designs is going to be what determines

the actual quality of the amplifier (*cough* peavey *cough*) []

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I would not disable the fan completely. WHen you take the QSC apart, you can see that it is designed to have cool air flow through it (all of the cooling fins are close together in front of the fan and exclosed. Amps without fans use a flow where hot air rises and by that action, it causes cool air to enter into the fins and hot air to escape).

Did the techs say not to run a lower volume fan? In as much as they amp is mounted on a shelf by itself and the surrounding temperature is low (about 80 degrees) and teh amp is barely being pushed, the low velocity fan should be adequate.

Chris

[cjgeraci]

Dr. Who: thanks for reminding me of your background and for sharing your experience. As always, I appreciate everyones' experiences in here, and the wealth of education, skill, expertise and experience is what makes this forum what it is. Oh - and the personalities.......[]

I agree - it is always best to listen to the amp before buying it. But, sometimes - people do not get that opportunity - especially if the amps are primarily used in the pro arena. So subjective thoughts and impressions can help those who do not have that opportunity beforehand.

In any event, for me - it was not that large of a risk or leap of faith because I ended up spending less than $700 for both of the QSCs.

Carl.

[johnyholiday]

...

[Duke Spinner]

Hmmm ...

instead of the BK Butler ProValve ....

i could take the 2 - Mark 4's

put 'em in simulClass

use the Triaxis as a stereo preamp ...............[H]

[johnyholiday]

James Hetfield's rig retubed and road proofed for summer tour by Mesaboogie employee

[edwinr]

I used to buy stuff on specs alone. Silly me. I would browse through manufacturer's handouts and completely rule out various componentry because the specs didn't suit me - without giving them an audition.

Now I listen. Lots. But what I have noticed, is that there is a considerable difference in tonal quality between various amplifiers - even with those with similar design features. Even more suprising, is the difference in the ability of various amplifiers to reproduce fine detail and air. It's just taken me so long to be able to differentiate between quality amplifiers and those that try and impress with 'boom and tizz'.

P.S. Store demonstrations can be very misleading, unless you take control and dictate how you want to listen to something.

[Rivendell61]

Re the QSC PLX series:

There are a bunch of drop-in replacement fans which are much quieter than the stock fan.

For a while QSC sold the PLX as a home amp. It was dressed up a bit--and with a quiet fan.

Here is the link (which still works but seems gone from the web site) SRA series, kinda nice:

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/sra/sra.htm

These are two of the possible replacement fans:

Panaflo FBA08A24L

SanyoDenki 109RO824H402

QSC suggests that you keep the stock fan and put it back in if the amp gets re-sold, just in case it winds up in a more demanding pro occupation.

Re Pro vs Consumer. Bob Lee (who is something like a senior eng. at QSC) used to post at AA and if you search on his name there are some interesting discussions about QSC, pro vs consumer quality, etc.

Other non-fan amps used in lots of pro applications are Haflers and Bryston. Some low watt Haflers are quite inexpensive.

Mark

[greg928gts]

I have not read this thread, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered.

About 4 years ago I tried to put together an all heritage HT system that would also function as a 2-channel system with my Khorns. It didn't work well for me. I found that the electronics needed for the HT really got in the way of my enjoyment of the 2-channel. I also wanted a lot more volume out of the 2-channel than the HT. Then I got into tubes and I knew what I had to do.

I highly recommend that you separate your two systems. You'll find you'll enjoy both much more when they are designed as dedicated systems. I did. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that you will have much more flexibility with your 2-channel system, and a lot less troubles integrating everything with two separate systems.

Greg

[cjgeraci]

Greg, sorry to hear that attempting to integrate a combine two-channel/HT Heritage did not work out for you. I respectfully disagree about it being preferable to separate your systems. Separating systems is great if you have lots of space and/or multiple rooms (or speaker combos) to play around with, but if you want to do both in the same space - you can. Some great little inventions help make incorporating two-channel and HT less complicated than before. You can have two quality systems (two-channel/HT) in one system.

First, as been mentioned in this thread, the Niles DPS-1 is a nifty little amp selector that allows you to run two different preamp/amp combinations to a single set of speakers. It effectively allows one set of Heritage to be used both as 2-channel (i.e. with a tube pre and tube amp) or as mains as part of a 5.1-7.1 (i.e. with a receiver or multi-channel processor and different amp). I run two Niles DPS-1 for both my front and rear speakers, without any signal degradation, and it allows me to run two sets of preamp/amps setups for those speakers. That also allows me to run different amps for 2-channel or HT (Marantz tube or QSC). The Niles is a simple little unit, yet there have been a number of forum members who have used it with some success. There are many combinations/variations possible but the most economical way of combining a HT/2-channel would be to go with a higher powered receiver for all HT channels and then switch over to a modest tube pre and tube amp for two-channel (or a nice vintage integrated tube). Or, if one wants to spend more and get better quality for HT, there are always separates quality multichannel processors (and separate amps) on the HT side.

Another handy device for incorporating the same concept has been the advent of a number of newer tube linestages featuring a HT bypass - which effectively does something similar. These bypasses allow you to bypass the tube preamp portion of the preamp and allow you to use a multi-channel signal with your mains, as part of a 5.1. There are a number of tube linestages with this option, and I happen to run a Juicymusic Peach with this feature - and really like it.

Carl.

[smilin]

Check out the Butler audio 5 channel amp, I betcha it's just what the doctor ordered[]

[maxg]

There are many ways to get to Rome. Some can do it with 1 watt, some need 1000. I do not think there is any right way - merely a number of options.

I would say - forget topologies, designs and technologies and let your ears be your judge. If tubes do it for you - all well and good, if it is bigass SS amps then go that route and if it is pro-amps well why not - it is your money and your system.

Amps new vary in price from $30 to $250,000 that I know of - somewhere in that range there are one or more that suit your needs. That is probably all you really need to know - the rest is leg work.

There are also a number of multi-channel amps that offer a bypass mode of one form or another for 2 channel listening. I don't know how available Primare amps are in the US but they are very big over here and are probably the most impressive mutli-channel amps doing 2 channel I have heard.

I should state that I have zero experience of Pro-amps - they could be the best products out there for all I know - or completes POS's.

For me, however, my amp search stopped with a 70 wpc ultralinear amp using EL34's. There ain't much it wont drive that I might be interested in - and it seems to adore Klipsch speakers in all their forms.