D-MAN Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Somebody stop me before I BUILD AGAIN! (Another pair in cherry). Cat not included. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 D, OK I'll bite, what are you building now? That is one hobby I wish I had the talent and skill for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Another pair of cornerhorns like in my avatar. I'm going to go lighter with the stain, but still "red". DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I think maybe the cat already knows it's too late to stop now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Awesome!!! You can send em to me when you are done![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I would rather send them to you in their current state! You don't want to know how much this cost so far... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I wish you didn't live so far away. I think I'd pay you to build me a pair of bottoms and skip the 3rd motorcycle. Which squawkers and tweeters are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thinking of switching to the BMS 4590 coax on the top end (I currently have only one for comparison listening - I'll know for sure when I hear two at the same time!). I have JBL 2404h and Selenium D-305's on a 2" throat horn, but I think I like the BMS better overall due to it being more dynamic. It runs just fine against the JBL tweeter. Dispersion characteristics are different of course, but overall, more WHACK with the same highs. 90x40 deg. horn, high frequency "beaming" (which I was afraid of) is not a real problem at the approx. 10 ft listening position. However, the noticable difference is in the vertical plane, not the horizontal, if one stands up, it's entirely different and dispersion gets somewhat uneven or different to the point that you know that your ears have passed through some sort of sound plane. Horizontally, the coverage seems to be fine. That is the one difference - dispersion characteristics even from the same horn. Running ESN xovers which of course are not necissary for the mid/tweeter. I think the depth queues and imaging are more coherent with the BMS. I recently switched to a T/S matched bass driver instead of the K33E, which I had previously used. I went "back" only once, to make sure, and found I couldn't live with the K33E's after that. Unexpected result! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 What bass driver did you select, and what do you plan to do with the K33Es? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 me too! What driver did you discover? Is the T/S matched to the K-33 or to the cabinet? Both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Are you building these yourself this time or having the cabinet maker do them? I know he made a lot of money off of you on the first pair. Are you using the Eminence CB15? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Its now time to take the 12 step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 DM, Have you given thought to building a tracix horn for your BMS 4590? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Wow, that's alot of questions! First, the T/S matching was to the horn itself using Keele's formulas. However, it just so happens that the horn itself is a virtual match to the Khorn (close enough), too, so what works for one will work (to a point) in the other. The differences of my horn is that it folds differently so that it crosses over higher like the Jubilee (same concept, different design). Currently that point is 600Hz, and that means that I am after a driver that fills in where the K33E leaves off, in particular up to the 600Hz point, exactly the area that the K33E is intended to drop off in. The bass driver is the Eminence CB15 bass guitar driver. Some of its benefits such as upper-and-mid-bass response would be negated in the Khorn due to the Khorn low xover point, but it is a viable T/S match in the Khorn providing it uses the full 6x13" slot opening. It is balanced toward the mid-bass range rather than the extreme lows, although it does go "as" low when required. Used as a single, it does get a little "reactive", like Al K. mentioned in another thread. So that means a new crossover to adjust. I tried the Dayton 15" cast frame driver, too, also using its optimal 6x13" slot for highest efficiency. It also is a contender, but I think the CB15 has a quality of solid bass that the Dayton didn't. Personally, my impression is that the Dayton sounded indestinguishable from the K33E. As a side note, the Dayton also "fit" the crossover like a glove even though it is 8 Ohms. Sort of a drop-in replacement for the K33E; I was looking for an improvement, not an "even" replacement. But it lacked the overall sparkle and pizazz of the CB15. My opinion, you understand. I specifically WANTED it to stand apart from the Khorn "sound"; I based it on the general impressions expressed by some here who have actually heard a Jubilee and what and why they liked it. Actually, it's my interpretation of what I think they liked, anyway. But it's a purposeful attempt at choosing a particular "voicing" for the speakers. I am satisfied with my decisions. I have been considering the naked wooden horn (ala Bill Martinelli) in leiu of the top cabinet (yes - a tractrix would be a good choice). The top cabinet is alot of work so it might go by the wayside. Crossovers are a problem with the naked horn - where do you hide them. Bill Martinelli has an excellent idea on that, although I doubt that he's seen the size of Al Klappenberger's ES networks. The K33E's are slated for a horn-loaded reflex cabinet, which will be arriving any day now. I even tried the K33E with the wider slot size (knowing that the pre-62 Khorns used that) - the results were awful, which I really did not expect. So the moral of this story is that the K33E IS optimized for the smaller slot size, and due to its rapid falloff above 400Hz, it is best in the post-62 Khorns (works ok with the smaller slot in my design too). The difference in sound between the K33E and the CB15 in the same horn is that the K33E is balanced on the extreme lows and is a "slacker" on the upper-and-mid bass area. The CB15 on the other hand is balanced towards the upper-and-mid bass adn falls off on the extreme lows, comparitively. Needless to say, WHACK, "timeliness" (or quickness), and punch are better with the CB15. Bruce, as far as building them myself, that is a piece of cake - BUT I am worried about the finish work, being that this is 3/4" cherry veneer which is costly, and I have no real experience in THAT! But I think that I can do it. The patent on my horn is slated to publish on Dec. 16! I'll let you now when it gets on the USPTO website for your perusal. DM {edit} I should mention that one thing that I find ADDICTING is the punch - these shake you shirtsleeves at 1 watt (my Mc300 averaging meters - who knows how accurate they are). I'm not kidding in the least. Also a major difference is that they can be turned up and still sound clean. The K33E starts to mud up above 1.5 watts. For extremely low wattage (flea-powered) amps, I'd go with the K33E. For anything and everything else: CB15's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Took some more pics, you've got to be some sort of a nut to appreciate this, but here is a pic of a 3/4" cherry plywood finished both sides, zero hollows ($105 a 4x8 sheet). Is this about right, because that's generally what it costs around here (Western Wash)? Man is this stuff nice. It's probably high, just like everything else in this state! One problem is matching both speakers with the same grain. It's not perfect, but hopefully close enough. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Another pic of the "pile" - notice anything? YUP - absolutely NO MDF! This pair will not have a finished top - it will be covered by the top cabinet - hence the regular ply. I'll paint the top of the bass bin black ala the new Khorn. It will have a facing edge piece of cherry, of course. You won't be able to see any black, in otherwords. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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