Btrigg Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 I'm really tired of hearing the "400 watts" of the logitech. They would not give me the way they got that number and I would not be suprised if they used the same method as Klipsch, just Klipsch has finally told the truth, they "used" to be 400 watts rms and now they are mbo, heh. Logitech won't give "real" numbers and they are doing the same thing Klipsch did when they released the pros. Yet people now think the logitech are more powerful. Why won't they tell me how they tested, cause they know that the word will get out when they tell me that it isn't true rms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinter Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 If I remember correctly, Klipsch never claim they have RMS rating, its their 'insert here' rating and was told by them that its RMS equivelant. The logitech is RMS but how efficient their drivers are is another issue. ------------------ BA735 USB ProMedia 4.1 Sony MDR-Z600 HP SBLive 1024 Digital This message has been edited by splinter on 10-25-2001 at 02:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 Once again, the Klipsch power rating is expressed in RMS terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 ok, now I am confused... i though the v2.400's were RMS but the latests ones were MBO... ohwell I listened to teh new logitechs yesterday at Best Buy. They do sound good, if i ever got hit in the head hard enough that i leave Klipsch they would be the first speakers i look at. But untill then they are not for me. Don't know what it was about the sound, just not the "Klipsch" sound that i am used to and have enjoyed for years. They did not hit the treble like the Klipsch's and since the 4.1's were RIGHT next to it and i could comapre them with the cdplayer they had them hooked to, i did... (that was terrible syntax) Well, in NO WAY did the LogiTecs "Blow" the pros out of the water. They just kept up with the Klipsch's, nothing more. The sub's port is in a U shape, they did that because you can get lower frequencies with smaller drivers, i don't like that idea.. reminds me of BOSE's "Wave Technology". Cheating with tubes and holes (aka smoke and mirrors) If anyone abandons Klipsch go for these or the XFires. But don't leave Klipsch to get these, it is not worth the change, the only place they beat the klipsch's was the price, but $50-$70 is not a HUGE difference, still to a person new to this branch of computer media, it looks VERY appealing. ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btrigg Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 Sorry but they are being sold for $150 and are a good buy. That is half the price. As for the U-shape, that probably has a lot of turbulence at high bass levels, Klipsch has it and its only 1/2 of a U. But Klipsch doesn't flare their ports so it might not be the case. Dan F, you test rms for 30 sec periods, right? So truthfully the burst in mbo is a pretty long time. And is not a peak. I doubt the logitechs can hold a "true" rms rating, which most people consider full bandwidth with low thd and something longer than just 30 sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pankaker67 Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 Thanks for the mini-review Justin. I'm gonna have to go check them out at Best Buy. I don't expect these speakers to cause someone to leave Klipsch, but someone like me whose Klipsch died, I have an option to resurrect my Klipsch for $160 or pay $150 for a new complete set, I think I'd go with the new set. (I can still use my Klipsch drivers, just need to hook them to my receiver/amp.) BTW, the price different is more than $60-70. Many dealers have these Logitechs for $140-150, whereas the Klipsch 4.1 are $300, maybe a little less. Also, Logitech offers a two year warranty compared to Klipsch's one year. pankaker67 <--- still disgruntled about his broken v.2-400 This message has been edited by pankaker67 on 10-25-2001 at 08:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 sorry, i was going by the wrong price, at Best Buy thery were $149, at the website i read that review i think they were MSRP @ $199... Thay are smaller too, a lot smaller really... if that means anything. The sub box is smaller too... it seemed it at least.. ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy15 Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 FYI... Mark at 3DSS has just received a pair of Z-560s and has compared it to the PM4.1 in a couple of posts on the BB. The verdict on its musical abilities is still in deliberation.... but otherwise: "From a gaming and movie perspective they are outstanding with my brief impressions (maybe an hour or so playing around with them) being I have heard no equals at the $200 price point. The upper bass extension of the sats is outstanding and the sub is deep, clean and powerful. My early impressions are that these are a huge threat to the ProMedia 4.1 for gaming and movies" Not bad for a system half the price of the PM4.1! Klipsch its time to respond and get ahead once again. We can't have Creative and Logitech beating you can we?! Think of all the disappointed Promedia fanatics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 first post from Mark quote: have been spending most time finishing off the PM51 early impressions article so have not put much quality listening into the Z-560s. I say that to qualify that for music my impressions may change but I find both midrange and high end quite good. Vs the PM41 spme midrange perhaps somewhat less forward. I know thats vague but I really need to do more music listening before being more specific. From a gaming and movie perspective they are outstanding with my brief impressions (maybe an hour or so playing around with them) being I have heard no equals at the $200 price point. The upper bass extension of the sats is outstanding and the sub is deep, clean and powerful. Mark Muschett 3DsoundSurge Follow up later that day quote: Actually I meant just the opposite but these are really preliminary impressions. For example with a bit more listening I think the midrange is a bit more forward but might change my mind again when I start to focus on testing the system in ernest and change satellite placement with where the PM41 sats currently are. Someguy15, musically I am not saying there is no clear winner, rather I am just saying I have not listened enough to offer an opinion (I guess you are saying that if I have to listen "enough" to say then that's a good plug for the Z-560s right there but still...). They do sound quite different but again I have not listened a lot yet as was trying to clean up the ProMedia 51 early impressions (early impressions means it won't have the same level of detail as the final review will). Splinter - to meaning just the opposite - My early impressions are that these are a huge threat to the ProMedia 4.1 for gaming and movies. Music is the greatest challenge for any system when it comes to accuracy though, which is why I am being intentionally vague right now to avoid having to backtrack. As much as I trust my ears I also want to see what the objective Z-560 results come out as. I can add that I do think that the Gamespot (?) preview that said they blow the ProMedia 4.1 out of the water is an exaggeration but for Logitech to have a huge hit they don't have to blow them out, they just have to be competitive... On the ProMedia 5.1 - the sats are in fact different and are as noted in another thread both a strength and weakness relative to the PM41 sats. It's all in the crossover change with some good news (better clarity most of the time, better power handling) and bad news for classical piano (or any other primiarly piano) fans and fans of opera style vocals (or stuff like the Diva scene in 5th element). This same material poses no probs to the ProMedia 4.1 (or Z-560 for that matter) but causes a quiet but clearly noticable distortion like edge to some frequencies on the PM51 sat. I have seen one other complaint in the Klispch forum on the same. Mark Muschett 3DsoundSurge Sounds like a 5.1 review is coming soon! YES! IT IS about time! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 My friend just bought a pair and they sound "close" to my 4.1's but they are lacking in highs and the sweet vocal midrange that Klipsch has in thier tweeter. Bass is acceptable but agian no where near the punch that the twin subs have. The subwoofer unit gets hot just like Klipsch... amplification + volume = "heat" its physics people. Nice try Logitech, but no cigar.. 4.1's rule PERIOD. ------------------ Logitech This message has been edited by renegade on 10-27-2001 at 04:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 This part is hilarious! "My friend just bought a pair and they sound "close" to my 4.1's but they are lacking in highs and the sweet vocal midrange that Klipsch has in thier tweeter." SWEET VOCAL MIDRANGE THAT KLIPSCH HAS IN THEIR TWEETER! LOL I MEAN LOL The vocal part does NOT come from the tweeter,unless you listen to colibri birds and insects.Then their "viocals" may come from the tweeter! LOL Even Silicone Spears and the Backdoor Boys dont have "tweeter" high vocals,and they are poor excuses for "artsits". And by the way the midrange in the ProMedias is their weak point,its no world beater. The VideoLogic Sirocco,SiroccoPRO,DTS and CrossFire systems all beat the Pro's hands down.From sub bass to highs its a easy victory. The Pro's are good but then you have to realise the 4.1 go for $299 and the Logitechs(almost as good) for $150 online! Guess where the better value is? Does not take a rocket engineer to figure that out. N'est ce pas? Its time Klipsch revamps the sats a bit. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 No joke. If someone can sing using mostly the tweeters, dang. you would have to be like mariah carey as a man that just go tkicked in the jewels. that is some serious highness for the tweeters to be the main source... good point ears, i did not pick up on that detail! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 TheEAR ------------------ This message has been edited by renegade on 10-28-2001 at 12:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 now, was that really necessary? ok, maybe it was... just joking of course! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostg1ant Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I have been following this thread with great interest as I was seriously considering the Klipsch Promedia 4.1 set until I saw the huge number of problems here. Now, I wouldn't touch these speakers with a 10' pole. I saw the reviews pointed out by many in this thread on the Logitech Z-560's and just bought a set. Since these have been hard to find I wanted to post and let anyone who is interested know that I found them here: http://www.computers4sure.com/Product.asp?ProductID=351790&iid=342 There were 32 available tonight for $149.99 + shipping... Regards, frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Frostg1ant what if we give you a FREE 20 foot pole,will you touch them? LOL Come on,and we throw in my own TheEAR(s) fire extinguisher.And as a gift I give you a Sunbeam 15" fan...to cool the amp down. Frostg1ant,be a good sport dont miss this one time deal. Oh and dear Renegade How do you find "the sweet vocal midrange that Klipsch has in thier tweeter" now ? LOL Dont on TheEAR(s). TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostg1ant Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 To TheEars: Sorry, I wouldn't buy the Promedia 4.1 speakers with *your* money at this point. To be truthful, I really wanted the Promedia when I began this search, but these quality issues really scared me off. Kind regards, frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lee Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Where do I begin? About a year and a half ago, I purchased a truly incredible speaker system, the Klipsch Promedia V.2 400's. Since that time, my ears have never lacked in "eargasms" or beautifully produced sounds. Now, before me stands a contender, one that will do its best to steal the coveted spot of best speaker from the Pro's. Well, lets see them try! When I picked up the package, I noticed that the box was heavy, and I don't just mean heavy, I mean...HEAVY. And I had to carry them from our campus warehouse to my dorm, almost two blocks away! *sigh* The things I do for you guys. As I unpacked the Z's, I noticed what all the other reviewers have: these speakers are very solidly built. Each satelite is approximately 7 1/2 inches tall and about 6 1/4 inches deep with the grills on. The grills aren't like the Pro's in the fact that they don't hug the surface of the sat. They actually sit about 1/2 inch off the face of the speaker. This helps keep the sound from being muffled by the grills. The stands for the satelites is also very well designed. Made of brushed aluminum (I believe) these clever little buggers are both stand and wall mount. All you do is unscrew the base with a allen wrench that is supplied with the set, and "viola"! Each satelite has solid binding posts for connecting the wires to the sub. I really like this feature. No longer are you limited by the length that the manufacturer believes is adecuate. Now, you just buy your own specific lengths. The phase plug, as you have all read about by now, are really kewl! They have this look about them that is just neat. And they perform their task very well. The subwoofer is also very well built. I discovered as I unpacked them, that here was the source of the weight. This sucker is big. Its taller than the Pro sub, and about the same length and width. The grill that covers the 8 inch driver is also tougher than the Pro's. The box is ported with a huge port on the left side. Both sides of this port are flared. Now about the control pod. All the reviews that I read spoke of the lack of identifying marks on the control knobs. They found that this was very strange since the rest of the system was built very well. Hmmm. On my set there are indentions for this very purpose. I think there sets were pre-production models for testing or something. I don't know. And the knobs rotate smoothly and accurately with the eye-catching blue ring making things appealing. "But how do they sound?" you ask. In a single word, solid. I've put these things through the loop, playing all aspects of audio, DVD, and game. I'm speechless. The highs, even with the tweeterless setup, are lilting, smooth and/or piercing(depending on the music, of course). The mids are full and always present. And the sub loves to speak for itself. Never did it cop out, or deny my ears the rattling they demanded. A rather interesting sensation is when the bass is so full, that it shakes all the hairs on your arms and legs. Oooohhhh. Sorry. The M3D feature is not too shabby either. Its not something that I plan to keep on 24/7, but on some vocal tracks it sounds really shnappy. Volume is another thing that the Z's excell at. With a huge 400 watts RMS pushing the speakers, who can blame them? I've pushed them to the point where I couldn't hear my roommates screaming at me to turn them down. And at that screeching point, there wasn't any distortion. Pretty impressive. And how do they sound compared to the Pro's? Well......hmmm. Pull my eyelashes out one by one with pliers, but they stood a little taller in the comparison. Now, don't get me wrong. It might be because I have the V.2's which are almost two years old. That could be a factor. But between the two sets that sit infront of my all-seeing gaze, the Logitech Z560's are the ones hooked up to my computer. I'm still waiting for 3Dss' own personal review. But until then, I'll keep crankin these babys! ------------------ You must learn the ways of the Promedia's, young grasshopper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 maybe i shoul dhave bought those instead of another 4.1 from klipshc just to see a more indepth take on them... i only listened for about 30 minutes but i do agree with you on nealry all point... i just am hyptnotized i guess by the klipsch sound. LoL! thanks for the indepth review! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lee Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 No problem Justin. ------------------ You must learn the ways of the Promedia's, young grasshopper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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