Epic CF-4's, close to home

[Bonzo]

There are a pair of Epic CF-4's on Audiogon and close to where I live. They are the later version but the owner says they are in great shape. I spoke with him on the phone. I know the original CF-4's had better compression drivers and better woofers than the later runs.

I am tempted but he wants $1100 which I think is a little steep? As I recall, the originals had 6" deep ports and the latter 2.5". His have the 2.5" ports. Any suggestions on pricing and the sound of these. A friend of mine has the originals with re-worked networks and they sound awesome! I'm sure fresh caps would make a difference.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[crazytubepower]

Stay away from the older version, they are no where near the quility of the earlier. Esp at $1100 stay away

[wstrickland1]

Stay away from the older version, they are no where near the quility of the earlier. Esp at $1100 stay away

is it me or is that statement a contradiction?

[colterphoto1]

you might send a shout out to member Cleve (Jim Cleveland) He has three CF4's for the front of his HT, I have two CF3's that I'll be shipping him for the rear. He seems to know a lot about the Epic series.

Michael

[crazytubepower]

oops i ment newer, my mistake

[Bonzo]

I think I will stick with my Forte II's. Chris Munson, popbumper, is building some crossovers for them. Can't wait to hear them with the new networks!

[colterphoto1]

Chris does some nice work. I think you'll be very pleased.

M

[Cleve]

$1100 seems like a lot. I paid $799 for my first pair

nearly two years ago - and those were in virtually "like new"

condition. But it does seem as if the

Epics have gotten more scarce in the last year. They don't

show up all that often on Ebay, so perhaps that would explain the

higher price?

AFAIK, the only changes between Ver 1 and Ver 2 were the port

tube tuning(i.e., length) was changed, and a different crossover

installed. I don't believe the drivers were changed. Good luck

finding a Ver 1 - mine are Ver 2, and every ad (with photos) I've

seen for them since was a Ver 2. I'm inclined to think the change

was made very early in CF-4 production. Or perhaps

Ver 1 is just an "urban legend' []

Theoretically,. you could make a Ver 2 into a Version 1 (or at least

darn close) by lengthing the ports, and replacing the

crossover. However, I'm not sure what the crossover point was on

the original CF-4. Perhaps the Klipsch factory has records of

this?

There's also the possibility that Ver 2 actually sounds BETTER than version 1.

[Bonzo]

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HUG/messages/48564.html I came accross this article by accident. Very interesting reading about the CF-4.

[Cleve]

[quote

user=Bonzo]http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/HUG/messages/48564.html

I came accross this article by accident. Very interesting reading about

the CF-4.

Very familiar with that post. ka7niq is the poster at Audio

Asylum, from which I originally learned by reading his posts

there, that there ever was a "Ver 1 " of the

CF-4s.

I'm not saying he's wrong - it's just they're scarcer than hen's

teeth. Like I said, it must have been a VERY small production

run, since I've never seen a photo of anyone selling Version

1.

[Flason]

So how many variations of the CF4 were there? I have a pair from '95 and the CF4's were only made from '94 to '96. Mine have the 2.5" ports and a small magnet (compared to the Heritage I own) on the woofers. Sounds like version 3 to me from the descriptions. Yet I wonder. Wouldn't it take research and development some time to determine that they needed to change drivers and port size to save some money? If the version 1 sounded so good, why risk loosing sales by making an inferior product with subsequent versions? I came across 2 pair in this area and both have the 2.5" ports. A friend of mine in West Palm has a pair and they too have the small ports. Where are the Version 1's? Does anybody have a pair? I have already talked with Dean and he has a crossover. Wouldn't the crossover correct any deficiencies with the latter version of the CF4?

[Bonzo]

I can't answer your questions but I guess the important thing is they sound and work well for you. I do believe Dean's networks will make a big improvement.

[MrMcGoo]

"Version 1" may have been an alpha or beta test model. Klipsch seems to have a policy of continuous improvement in any case. If you want CF-4s, you better grab them when they are available.

As far as the small magnets are concerned, they are neodymium which is an ultra strong magnet. The type of construction used with the neodymium magnet naturally video shields them without bucking magnets.

Bill

[marems]

I agree,jump on them! they are pretty rare. I read on the audiogon klipsch threads titled "KLIPSCH love them or hate them" A person stated that the version 1 Epic CF-3 &4's were the best due to a more dampend cone and were tuned lower. He stated that the other versions were not as good and didn't have the sweet mids because of the lighter cones they used in the later versions, and also had rasied the tuning. If I had the funds I would have jumped on the CF-4's.[]

[ka7niq]

This is the real story.

Roy Delgado designed the original CF 4 to have deep bass, hence the 6 inch ports.

He had to sacrifice a bit of efficiency to do so.

The Original CF 4 was a radical departure in sound from the older Heritage series {Thank God} and was no where near as efficient.

Also, it was not well received in dealers showrooms, since the dual woofer/mid D'Appolito alignment required prospective buyers to actually sit down, and listen.

To a standing listener, the CF 4 could sound pretty bad, since the sound was dominated by the vertical pattern of the horn.

Under pressure from dealers, Roy was forced to re design his masterpiece!

The ports were shortened, and efficiency increased, turning it into a glorified boom box.

This version 2 still kept the neo magnet woofers, and had a minor crossover change.

Then, partly because the neo magnet woofers were so expensive, Roy was forced to re design the CF 4 for the third, and final time.

The woofer was changed to a lighter, more efficient design.

Unfortunately, the cone was no longer as damped, nor was the replacement magnet nearly as strong, and Roy's masterpiece was ruined!

A series 2 can simply have it's ports replaced with series one ports, and low bass will return.

Roy dont remember the slight crossover change, and there are no engineering notes.

My email address is Ka7niq@yahoo.com, and my phone is 813 655 8777 for any who wish to know more.

Currently, I own Klipschorns, and modified Forte's.

IMHO, none hold a candle to the original CF 4.

I should be shot for ever selling mine.

[hillbilly]

ka7niq,

I would love if you could point me in the direction of any reliable info on the epic series. I recently bought some cf-3's and I haven't been able to find much ino on them. Is there a way to tell what year of production mine are?

Thanks!!

[JDeSimone]

ka7niq,

I have a pair of CF-4s and they are the newer ones. Built in 95. I am very pleased with them but wonder whether it would be possible to retrofit them with the 6" ports and neo drivers? If so how expensive would it be?

I am also noticing that you have a KV4 center. Interested in trading it for a KLF-C7 oak?

Let me know.

[Guest Les Paul]

I may know where a pair of version 1 CF4's are. As a matter of fact, these were Roy Delgado's personally tweaked speakers. If anyones interested let me know. 870-772-3262

[JBryan]

Les Paul,

Where are these speakers located? I have a friend who may be very interested in a pr of C-4s.

Thanks, Bryan

[Guest Les Paul]

They are in Texarkana Arkansas I bought them from Roy about 6 years ago. They were converted to version I's by Roy. He added internal bracing to them also. I dont believe that the production models had this extra bracing. The only negative thing I can say about the speakers is that they have two different finishes. I believe one is cherry and the other light oak. Its funny cause, in the six years that I've had them, no ones has ever noticed that they are two different colors.