D-MAN Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 That was a concern of mine too (HT), with the K33E being limited to 150 watts "safely" and an amp easily capable of twice that. However, I keep saying, there is something to be said about having a high current power supply even just idling along! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Duke: Maybe you can elaborate on your definition of "harshness". Could it be "tinny" or "shrill", or "distortion related" or in what I suspect is happening is you are exceeding the "SPL" of the room. You can usually tell when this is happening by the pictures falling off the wall, ceiling caving in, mad people next door shooting at you, old Volkswagon Bugs all painted real silly parked by your driveway with long haired people dancing in the street. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 hard to describe sound, isn't it JJ ...... no we are listening at an average 1/8 > 1/2 watt ..... the Key is ....material that sounds "silky" on the 4430's, well it's not great on the KH since i don't have any fancy test/ measurement eq, other than my DOD spectrum display, i'm guessing what bothers me ... like all Heritage it seems .... the damn Mid horn is waaay too loud and, the driver running Full Range, really "out of range" a consequence of getting High Eff, no what the sonic cost well, i don't need 104 dB Eff., cause i'm not running 10 watts, i've got Power to Burn ...!! the Mid horn Really bothers me ...it's immediately noticeable, be it KH, 'Scala, or Cornie the Sound is full of crud, due to it not really "reproducing" the extreme range it is fed by the x-over i suspect ALK ES will solve my listening problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Yep - the ALK ES should solve your listening problems. Or a Tractix horn drop in. Or an adjusted ALK universal. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 The simple truth is the ones that cost more sound better. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 "not much real info above 3000 hz anyways" The trouble is, that is where the most important stuff is, scant though it be. It is the difference between a fiddle and a Strad. Some people can hear it and some can't. It is wasted or actually painful on those who can't and essential to those few who can. From my years as a pipe organ builder I can tell a repeated story. A church has a Baldwin electric organ. They get a new Casavant pipe organ. The young people in the parish think "WOW!" The older folks carp on and on with "It is too loud and harsh. We liked the electric organ better." The difference? The young people could hear the blaze of harmonics that a real musical instrument produces. The oldsters, due to hearing degradation hear the same harmonics as painful distortion. The moral is --Klipschorns, et. al. will sound harsh to some and glorious to others. It is important how you take care of your ears. Coffee and tobacco, and anything that constricts the blood flow to your head are bad. Unprotected ears in loud environments are bad. I'm 67 and I can still tune to the top C of a 2' principal, the fundamental of which is almost 9000 Hz., not to mention the blaze of harmonics above the fundamental. I have never heard a harsh heritage Klipsch speaker. It is because of what I can hear, and not because of the garble of distortion caused by what I can't hear. Here endeth the evening lesson. Sorry about that. DRBILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Max, probably the most articulate post I've seen in three (3) years. Mega ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 . The moral is --Klipschorns, et. al. will sound harsh to some and glorious to others. my Bet, Bill ... is they will sound a lot better with ALK ES Bad sound isn't "glorious" your "Blazing Harmonics", in the case of your strad, are All Done at 7000 hz, and at Picowatt levels anyway ..... the main body , or tone of the Instrument, Fatness, is a mere 260 hz ... having a small throat horn LOADED with 20 dB down Garbage, basically "noise" ....doesn't lead to CLARITY let's not forget the SAME Music, on the 4430's sounds Great ........... 4430's have been called a lot of names, like Flat, Cold, Detailed......where's that leave the KH..??? and, yes, i tested my hearing , just in July ... i'm good to 15'000 hz .. +/- 1 beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Dude, what did you expect with that gear? CDs and SS aren't really backwards compatible with Klipsch Heritage. PKW's genius was fostered in the vinly and tube era. You need to revert to the technology that was current when the Klipsch Heritage was born, man. Heritage Klipsh are beautifully revealing of what good old vinyl and tube can do. Trying to drive then with gear that didn't really exist when they were designed is like - what, somebody help me out here....? Pauln Is that supposed to be funny? I know a lot of folks with SS gear listening to their CDs on heritage stuff. And it sounds GREAT! Duke's JBL gear is pretty heritage as well. [] You can ship some of those to me Duke, or the Altec 19s. Those are gorgeous speakers. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 the 19's .....born in 1972 ,...long before CD's ..........[] the L-36's .. i bought new, in 1976 ......the only new speakers i have ever bought ...[:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Duke questions still?....? Didn't you basically give me this same lecture on our last phone conversation? It must be the Klipsch beaming highs that have effected your memory.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 i guess i gotta learn the same KH lessons as everyone else ... now I got some to tinker with it's not by accident Al came up with those networks .. i won't change the mid horn, it's really not a Klpsch, then ... i don't know with out some x-over work if thier goin' or stayin'... there are some issues with the snare drum reproduction at 300 hz also .. great snap at 2000-2500 hz, but limp where the Meat is , at 300 hz. Most importantly, i also noticed, conga's that " ring"on the 4430's and 19's ...don't on the KH .... it's damping the Ring out .... speaker as Filter ....[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Duke I think if you just got Al's Universal replacement Networks you'd be pleased with the K-Horn once you knock down the squawker a bit. It made a tremendous improvement in my LS. Enough so that I don't feel pressed to move up to the ES until I get some other items resolved first. This weekend I am planning on demoing some tweeters and attaching my drivers to Altec 511s. The Universal Kits at $299 a set are pretty reasonable or you can just buy the parts yourself and build em. Either way it will make a very noticeable difference and you stil keep the KH's wonderful dynamics. Besides tweaking is half the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 The reason why I'm no longer using my original '79 Cornwalls is due to harshness, no matter what type of amplification I used. I'm almost certain now from all the testimonials I've read over the years that my crossovers are to blame, and new, improved crossovers from Al, Bob, or Dean would seem to take care of the problem. I do have an extremely small listening room (12 x 13.5 x 8) and always blamed the room as being the problem. Others on this forum also use their Heritage, Reference, and Synergy horn speakers in rooms this size with excellent results, thus I assume that if I had new crossovers, my problem would be solved. Hopefully someday in the not-too-distant-future I'll have the necessary funds available to be able to purchase new networks...I miss not being able to enjoy my Cornwalls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 how much did you attenuate the squawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 how much did you attenuate the squawkerTofu:I know that was directed towards J.4knee, but I'll put my 2 cents worth. I have Belles with Al's Universals and have played around with the attenuation tap settings. For Belles, I like them with the most attentuation available with the ALK (whatever that is - can't recall how much db off of the top of my head). I know Dean posted a thread some time ago with the various tap settings and corresponding db - but its just too late to find it.... With the squawker fully in check, my Belles sound much more balanced - at all volumes - even at low and moderate. Plus, the forced energy with the narrow throat is greatly reduced by backing it off that much. I really do not miss the reduced sensitivity because I either run a 30 watt push-pull or 200 watts of solid state - so they still do fine. Of course others have preferred less attentuation with their K-horns. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Dude, what did you expect with that gear? CDs and SS aren't really backwards compatible with Klipsch Heritage. PKW's genius was fostered in the vinly and tube era. You need to revert to the technology that was current when the Klipsch Heritage was born, man. Heritage Klipsh are beautifully revealing of what good old vinyl and tube can do. Trying to drive then with gear that didn't really exist when they were designed is like - what, somebody help me out here....? Pauln Is that supposed to be funny? I know a lot of folks with SS gear listening to their CDs on heritage stuff. And it sounds GREAT! Duke's JBL gear is pretty heritage as well. [] You can ship some of those to me Duke, or the Altec 19s. Those are gorgeous speakers. Bruce Agree, Bruce. I love my vinyl and tubes, but I also dig my Heritage with CDs and my solid state (Of course adding tubes to the CDP and the preamp helps a bit....)Also, yes, Duke - you have an outstanding looking group of speakers (as well as sonically as well). Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Tofu I've experimented with my ALKs, and I like the "normal" setting recommended by Al, which is -6.2db on the squawker..I tried the next "normal" setting, at -4.7db, and it revealed a little more on older recordings, but was too harsh on newer, compressed recordings. The -6.2 db was outstanding..I find myself listening to selections I skipped over before, as the sound is so much more listenable. Duke, give those crossovers a shot before you write the KHorns off! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Duke: My old speakers were pretty rough before I put in the new Dean crossovers. And I use (cough) solid state conventional amps Denon low end stuff. After the installation of the crossovers it was like listening to new speakers, especially the Corwall. I also pump the crap out of the low end with an equalizer and use the AKA Hughes expander which really pumps the crap out of everything. I guess you could say I am really "pumped". JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 Equalizer ....???? Expander...????? [] uh oh .... yea, i run that stuff , too ..[]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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