Woodog listening school

[colterphoto1]

Well I did it.

I remember watching Woodog at the Hope Gathering and the curious (to me) method that he employed adjusting speaker postions by millimeters and then listening in a very silent, still manner. Looked like a mannequin propped up in a chair. The best way I can explain it was that he said he needed it perfect so that the 'soundfield would unfold in front of him, and he could hear the position of each instrument'. Sounded pretty elusive to a guy like me with wacky room layout.

After removing most of the superfluous Heritage from my Hearth room, I spent some time carefully tweaking speaker positions. This included moving one of my surround CW's from a position on the side wall to behind the 4 Coaster seats, for a more symetrical layout.

I placed a large pillow on my actual chair with YPAO mic propped on top of it. As close to actual ear position as I could get. Even tipped the Coaster back one notch, my general positon for listening and movies. I then ran the Yamaha YPAO with the new positions, checked with db meter, gave the center and sub a bit of a bump, and was happy.

Oh yes, one of the rears was pointed out to being out of phase, so DrWho, that might be why the bass was sucked out of the room whenever we did 7ch stereo listening.

Sitting back in Coaster #2 (the preferred listening posts are #2 and #3 seats), I sat upright and motionless, as Woodog, my speaker positioning and listening mentor, would have me do. Seems that all my jumping about Jack Black style and head shaking were blurring my sonic image as much as if my speakers has been on roller skates. From this staid point of view (listen?) I felt the soundstage building before my eyes (ears?)- why do all the good analogies use sense of sight?

For the first time, I felt clearly surrounded by the sound field. Roxy, Yes. BlueMan Group, I even put on a couple of movies with the TV off and enjoyed the sense of space. Ah, this is what all the hoopla was about. I hadn't ever gotten it tweaked 'just right'.

Today I'm marking the CW corners with electrical tape so nothing moves.

Thanks Woodog, you showed me a better way. I have learned that patience and millimeters pay off.

Anyone else have experience in this area?

Michael

[Speedball]

My tv and stereo gear are pretty close to the wall and in between the RF7's. I align the speakers with a laser light to the listening chair across the smallish room. It's pretty hard to get the speakers to image or throw a soundstage with everything in the middle, every inch or two turning the speakers inward or outward will make a difference.

One of these days we will rearrange the furniture and change things around a bit so there will be more depth to the soundstage and hopefully I'll be able to then pinpoint the instruments.

[Audible Nectar]

Yeah, I've been there......in the Cornwall HT, however[] The 2 channel room isn't really set up to do this (it's more like a "studio monitor" setup) - but in the HT, I've done some positional tweaking. It was all "manual" though - no YPAO device.

In a complex setup, I am running two centers (yeah, I know, a violation, but I don't yet have a wall display device) in my HT. I first adjusted the two outside cabinets to get the stereo image - then adjusted the two centers to get the best overall image. If you folks think I'm crazy for trying it (you may be right, and I may be crazy) but I got this to produce very good results. The hard part was having to change the position of the two center cabs in relation to the outside mains (forward and back AND side to side). Once I got to playing around with it, though, I couldn't leave it alone until I got some pretty respectable results. It was fun to play with - and very eye opening. These speakers have mahhhhvelous capabilities.....

I can't wait until I get the proper room setup for this, and do it right. I've played with this concept enough to know that the real key is room and placement. This is a subject that deserves much more attention here - everyone should be playing with the cabinet positions in search of that mind blowing image.......

Great topic.

[maxg]

Michael,

You happen to have hit on something I am rather good at - though I do say it myself. It could be because my ears stick out (several people have mentioned that it might help in this regard) so I am very sensitive to sound direction - or it could be coinsidence.

Whatever the case I can usually sense when the speakers are not optimally positioned and correct(!?) them within a few minutes.

Whenever people visit and listen they invariably comment on the sound stage. As for sitting still whilst listening - obviously it makes sense but it does not have to be an agonizing experience. My entire setup is based around my most comfortable listening position - seated in my recliner with my feet up and the back partially inclined.

Once you are comfortable - and enveloped in the music you really don't want to move - which is when:

1. The phone rings.

2. Junior comes in wanting something.

3. SWMBO calls wanting something.

4. There is a knock at the door.

5. I get hungry / thirsty / need a pee.

6. Something electrical goes pop.

7. Someone nearby starts drilling something.

8. The refridgerator does its "I'm a jet engine" routine.

9. The record sticks.

10. I suddenly remember something urgent I should have done hours ago.

11. I get an SMS message on my mobile phone.

12. SWMBO gets an SMS message on her mobile phone and it is in the kitchen and she hears it.

13. The power goes out.

14. There is an earth tremour.

15. All of the above.

Amazes me I ever get to listen to anything really....

[Woodog]

Michael,

Funny, I've been experimenting with laying on the floor while listening to the khorns these days. It's like the soundstage is spread out above you on the ceiling. Fun stuff.

btw, I play a pretty mean air-guitar at high volumes, but I try to avoid that in public! []

I do love the way Cornwalls disappear if set up just right.

I used to have a pair of Heresys at my church (now in my kid's room), set up 35 feet apart, and when you found the sweet spot their image was incredible - huge, transparent, VERY wide.

There is a time to be still and a time to bounce. It's all good!

Woo

p.s. BS Button, if you're reading this, you STILL need an additional foot of speaker wire on the right LaScala! []

[colterphoto1]

"Funny, I've been experimenting with laying on the floor while listening to the khorns these days. It's like the soundstage is spread out above you on the ceiling. Fun stuff. "

I still do that too, it's really close to your approach, cause when lying on my back upside down with legs on the sofa, I'm really quite immoveable, so the soundstage stays the same, only reversed L/R. I find that I really can feel the floor vibrations as almost another octave of bass, and I like that the CW ports are right at ear level, really increases the visceral sensation.

But speaker positioning is key. You taught me that like no one else has.

Fun how and what we learn from each other here.

Michael

[nuclearay]

Hey Colter,

How far are your speakers from your ears? Would one expect some sort of inverse square law to come in to effect with speaker and listener distance/placement?

I just did some rearranging of the furniture last night (to make my living room actaully usable) and when I was done I recal'ed all of the levels. I moved the front three closer to my "spot", put the side surrounds directly beside me, and narrowed the distance between the two rear surrounds. Immediately I found that imaging was greater (much less speaker locatability). I would close my eyes and the speakers "disappeared" leaving only music.

The three fronts are all 12', the sides are 5' and 7', and the rears are both 10' away from my "spot." I've laser-pointed the front thee speakers to pass just to the left, top, and right of my head from the L,C, and R speakers respectively... the rest are 'fixed' in their locations. I wonder how much improvement I would gain from mm adjustments (as them 7s are heavy and spiked!)

I also enjoy tilting my head back (so that my head points up about 45deg) onto a little buckwheat husk pillow and closing my eyes for some crazy imaging.

[crazytubepower]

8. The refridgerator does its "I'm a jet engine" routin

omg I almost fell out of my chair on that one....funny stuff

[Deang]

I've been playing with time delay. I added 20,000 feet of wire to my squawkers.[]

[colterphoto1]

NA. All three fronts are on approximately the same plane, which puts the center at about 11' and L/R at 12-13 each. Rears are pretty close at 7'. But the Yamaha YPAO does a digital delay so all the sounds reach the ear at the same time (give or take for internal timeing- see 20,000 ft of squwaker wire). The CW are about 13 feet between them so it's pretty close to equilateral triangle. Everything is toed insanely inwards.

Michael

[rplace]

I've been playing with time delay. I added 20,000 feet of wire to my squawkers.[]

I did that same thing. It was a real b!tch twisting on the wire nuts at the end of every 100 feet of wire.

Dean, why no train avatars any more?

[BS Button]

Well I did it.

I remember watching Woodog at the Hope Gathering and the curious (to me) method that he employed adjusting speaker postions by millimeters and then listening in a very silent, still manner. Looked like a mannequin propped up in a chair. The best way I can explain it was that he said he needed it perfect so that the 'soundfield would unfold in front of him, and he could hear the position of each instrument'. Sounded pretty elusive to a guy like me with wacky room layout.

After removing most of the superfluous Heritage from my Hearth room, I spent some time carefully tweaking speaker positions. This included moving one of my surround CW's from a position on the side wall to behind the 4 Coaster seats, for a more symetrical layout.

I placed a large pillow on my actual chair with YPAO mic propped on top of it. As close to actual ear position as I could get. Even tipped the Coaster back one notch, my general positon for listening and movies. I then ran the Yamaha YPAO with the new positions, checked with db meter, gave the center and sub a bit of a bump, and was happy.

Oh yes, one of the rears was pointed out to being out of phase, so DrWho, that might be why the bass was sucked out of the room whenever we did 7ch stereo listening.

Sitting back in Coaster #2 (the preferred listening posts are #2 and #3 seats), I sat upright and motionless, as Woodog, my speaker positioning and listening mentor, would have me do. Seems that all my jumping about Jack Black style and head shaking were blurring my sonic image as much as if my speakers has been on roller skates. From this staid point of view (listen?) I felt the soundstage building before my eyes (ears?)- why do all the good analogies use sense of sight?

For the first time, I felt clearly surrounded by the sound field. Roxy, Yes. BlueMan Group, I even put on a couple of movies with the TV off and enjoyed the sense of space. Ah, this is what all the hoopla was about. I hadn't ever gotten it tweaked 'just right'.

Today I'm marking the CW corners with electrical tape so nothing moves.

Thanks Woodog, you showed me a better way. I have learned that patience and millimeters pay off.

Anyone else have experience in this area?

Michael

Well of course, I can tell you all about the observations of the infamous "Woodog"