Coytee Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Looking for someone who has heard them both. Preferably on a side by side basis and your thoughts. For sake of being clear, I'm curious who has heard the OTL's in bridged mode, verses the MC-30's on Khorns. Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 With the networks you're running right now you need to go with the MC-30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Dare I ask why you say that fellow neighbor? (from Hamilton & folks from Piqua/Findlay) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Well, I'd say you're the most qualified person I can think of to render an opinion, since you have both. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Apples and Oranges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 That's where you're wrong, Gary. Apples and grapefruit. Get it together, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Sometimes I wonder if I'm qualifed to opine on anything [] Reason? Steup: I've got a pair of Transcendent SE-OTL's, bridged to something like 4 watts each. I also have a dbx BX3 4 way amp, bridgable to something like 300 or 400 per channel or 125 watts into 4 channels (approx). Oh, and it's solid state of course as well as being like 15 years old. According to my readings and understanding, we have totally different amps? Well, when I adjust the inputs on the dbx down to where they have as close of output as I can equal with the OTL's (I have a Niles A/B switch)... they SOUND THE SAME!!!!!! I can not tell them apart or find any detail that I can use to differentiate them. Now in defense of my deafness (?), I'm saying the above without sitting in the sweet spot, without the room really being setup for the above and for all I know, perhaps using wrong music. Point being though, if it weren't for the higher noise floor of the dbx amp, (when it's throttles are cranked up), I'd have zero reason to sell it. What keeps me confused though is everything I've read suggests that when operating in the realm of the OTL's sweet output range, the big bad ss amp should sound a bit different? I'm simply hoping that it is in fact, just a supurlative sounding amp (which it does seem to be) and I'm not as deaf as it might otherwise suggest. If my above hope is indeed wrong, it would go a long way to explain why the wife is always badgering me to do something she's had to tell me to do a million times... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I guess then I won't bother with Transcendent SE-OTL[] if indeed does sound identical too high power SS without the power I see no point at all. I seriously don't think you could possibly be that deaf if there was a reasonable difference. Don't double guess what you hear since what you hear out of your own system is all that really matters. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Apples and Oranges But in this case when you peal the skin they turn out to be both grape fruit LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Richard you are not deaf dude, the MC-30's sounded virtually identical to my DBX BX-1's. I played them back and forth over a few days and the differences were so small they were not worth noting. The BX-1 was close to $5K new and built with the best parts and technology that they had available at the time. The BX-3MkII was built to the same engineering standards by DBX consumer group's Senior Engineering staff. My point is they sound as good as a quality tube amp across the entire spectrum, the MC-30 is amazing that it could equal such a massive and expensive amplifier when it was originally built so long ago. Is is so hard to think that a high quality SS amplifier can sound equally as good as a nice tube amplifier? I think not, you just have to get out of your tube mindset. The MC-30's sounded the same so it was pointless of me to keep them, so I sold them off and decided to keep what I currently had since no periodic maintenance is required on them whatsoever. They were very pretty and really nice to look at in a dark room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 coytee, Thanks for posting. This is a most interesting comparison. Kind of a headscratcher, too. Not what I would have expected. Speaks well for all gear concerned, IMO> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well. I've been quite hesitant to post my thoughts on the issue, as I don't get any satisfaction from questioning your assessments, but I don't understand how the amps mentioned could sound even slightly similar. I routinely demonstrate the difference between amps that are of comparable quality and topology, and even Pastor Schmoe in East Bumble**** can hear a difference through his Peavey mains... I suppose it could be that a certain signature elsewhere in your signal chain is asserting itself to the point that it masks the difference between the power amps. Of course as Craig points out, it really doesn't matter so long as you guys enjoy the music in your room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Well, thanks for everyones thoughts. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Ben, I dont have the MC-30s (nor the MC-2102) in my possession yet. Ill be looking forward to their arrival. Ive been a bit reluctant to make the admission I did because it simply doesnt fit everything Ive read, other than what Charles has made prior comment to. Hes been very consistent in his views. So I can be sure its said, the dbx amp DOES sound excellent. My only real gripe with it is the background noise it has. I lived with an old Yamaha receiver for decades and its hiss. Now that I know I dont have to settle for that, I dont care WHAT the amp is, if it hisses, Im looking elsewhere. My current plan is to replace the dbx with the MC-2102 thats on the way (man, I love the looks of that thing). The Transcendent SE-OTLs will have their counterpart in the MC-30s. My guess is, Ill be selling the dbx amp but might just keep the OTLs in addition to the MC-30s (wife allowing of course). Those OTLs, as well as sounding very good, LOOK cool as beans when the lights are out. Im wondering if my listening position & room reality might be affecting the sound. (although that doesnt make sense because different sound is STILL different sound) Hopefully my other two amps will arrive by Christmas.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 "So I can be sure its said, the dbx amp DOES sound excellent. My only real gripe with it is the background noise it has. " It doesn't have background noise, your pre-amp does. The fact that the noise goes away when you unplug your pre-amp proves where the noise is coming from. If the noise was from the amp itself the noise wouldn't go away when the pre-amp is unplugged. Mark confirmed that to you in the other thread about this. The amp is simply doing its job and amplifying what it is fed. Your pre-amp is feeding it noise along with signal. Turn down the input level controls on the DBX (which attenuates the noise from your pre-amp) and enjoy the amp. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 What Shawn just said is spot on! I owned a pair of BX-3MkII's for many years and got "0" noise when I paired them with the DBX CX-3MkII preamplifier. My Sherbourn 7/2100A is dead quiet when my NAD preamp is at "00" on the volume control, the moment that I increment it one step to "-74" the hiss and noise kick right in which tells me exactly where the noise is coming from - The Preamp! You are going to have the same noise with the MAC just you wait and see, and with no gain controls be prepared! Very hard to find a completely noise free preamplifier for sure, but the noise is not coming from the amp be certain of that. An amplifier should amplify period, it should add nothing to the signal, nada, zilch, if it does than it is not doing it's job correctly. I hate hearing that an amp sounds like this or that, it should sound like nothing! It should sound the same no matter what, if it doesn't then it is not a quality amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Alas, I do recall that being clarified. Something about the dbx amp that I can't figure out... when it's at moderate listening levels (not cranked up by ANY stretch) it will sometimes cut out and seemingly go into it's protection mode. After "X" number of seconds, it will come back on. Sometimes it will cut back out and othertimes it will be fine. The delay time before it returns seems to be the same which is how I deduce it's in protection mode. Oh, and the blinking light on the front is another hint for me. Given that DeWick has gone through amp and given it a clean bill of health, I can only presume we have a matching issue here. What I THINK I'm slowly figuring out via trial/error... If the outputs of the Peach are too high, it tends to knock the dbx down. If they're backed off, then it seems to be much more behaved. To cut back on the hiss, I need to cut the dbx inputs back. Couple that with the Peach controls being cut back, I'm cutting everything back on the very amp I'm trying to use to crank it up with. Kind of self defeating. My guess is, it seems to be acting like the Peach might be overloading the input on the dbx. It's this frustration that's causing me to decide to swap the amp out. The fact that I LOVE the looks of the MC-2102 doesn't hurt either. Just found out the 2102 has been passed off and should be in my hands on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Actually the MC30 has an input level control that should help you at least get rid of some in the noise. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Alas, I do recall that being clarified. Something about the dbx amp that I can't figure out... when it's at moderate listening levels (not cranked up by ANY stretch) it will sometimes cut out and seemingly go into it's protection mode. After "X" number of seconds, it will come back on. Sometimes it will cut back out and othertimes it will be fine. The delay time before it returns seems to be the same which is how I deduce it's in protection mode. Oh, and the blinking light on the front is another hint for me. Given that DeWick has gone through amp and given it a clean bill of health, I can only presume we have a matching issue here. What I THINK I'm slowly figuring out via trial/error... If the outputs of the Peach are too high, it tends to knock the dbx down. If they're backed off, then it seems to be much more behaved. To cut back on the hiss, I need to cut the dbx inputs back. Couple that with the Peach controls being cut back, I'm cutting everything back on the very amp I'm trying to use to crank it up with. Kind of self defeating. My guess is, it seems to be acting like the Peach might be overloading the input on the dbx. It's this frustration that's causing me to decide to swap the amp out. The fact that I LOVE the looks of the MC-2102 doesn't hurt either. Just found out the 2102 has been passed off and should be in my hands on Monday. The key to getting this correct and this is not self defeating. You set all level controls so that when listening at your max level your using something like 3/4 of the Peaches main volume control. Nothing wrong with this at all. I personally wouldn't own a preamp that doesn't have per channel level controls. If they don't have them I add them! It's all about system mating these controls help you in this respect. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 "If the outputs of the Peach are too high, it tends to knock the dbx down. If they're backed off, then it seems to be much more behaved." I'd think either the pre-amp is spitting out DC (isn't the DBX Direct coupled?) or it might be too hot. "I'm cutting everything back on the very amp I'm trying to use to crank it up with. Kind of self defeating." Turning the level controls down does not in any way shape or form limit the power available from the amp. You keep getting stuck on that. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 "You are going to have the same noise with the MAC just you wait and see," Maybe, maybe not. The Mac could have a less sensitive input and/or less gain which would hide the noise from the pre-amp better. That is why Coytee isn't hearing the noise through the SE-OTL, it has much less gain. Turning down the input level adjustments on the DBX is an easy solution to the noise problem from the pre-amp. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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