the lowdown on the SUB-12...REALLY!

[kramskoi]

It's music first and HT second for one of these 3 sub lines. I'm looking for the same musicality of my M&K mx-70 dual 8 or close to it! I'm into classical organ so i'll need good output from 20-30hz. I'm looking at either Klipsch, HSU or SVS.

The Sub-12...Is there ANY "independant" data in cyberspace beside "117db @ 30Hz"??? does anyone know how this sub will perform in the 20-25hz range? any data to confirm? i've read that it has more excursion than a pb12-isd and is "critically damped" so as to match as closely as possible (for a vented enclosure) a sealed qtc. of .707. Best Buy have them to go at 485.00 online and 509.00 at my local. The weight of this sub is a major turn-off...compared to svs and hsu. The cone material does'nt seem too impressive either but i have'nt heard anything bad about it's sound quality. I really want to buy it but no head to head testing or other "objective" data seems available online (major turn-off two).

How will this thing stack up against a STF-3 or PB-12isd??? thanks...

[MrMcGoo]

The Sub-12 has a good reputation on the board. We tend to be hyper critical of Klipsch in this area. This is the fist budget Klipsch sub to get an excellent reputation.

For classical organ, buy an RSW-15 on closeout early next year. On sale it will be extremely hard to beat. Reference 4 will show at CES, so the old Reference line will be on sale at deep discount.

If you go the Sub-12 route, BB has 10% off coupons floating around.

Bill

[michael hurd]

The sub-12 is a ported ( vented subwoofer ), it's rate of rolloff is 24 db / octave. 15 hz is one octave down from 30. ( half or double the frequency )

Room gain is approximately 12db per octave below the longest measurement in the room. So one one hand, we have falling acoustic output from the enclosure, and on the other we have free boost from the "room".

The wavelength of a 30 hz tone is 37.66 feet. If the longest dimention in the room is about that distance, this is where the "gain" starts. It is likely that you have a smaller distance that that in your room, so the "gain" starts earlier.

We could safely say that you will have room gain below 30 hz, therefore the level at 15 hz should be about 12 db down from the level at 30 hz, unless a high pass filter is implemented into the amplifier. ( most likely the case )

Depending on how steep that filter is, and the corner frequency, the output could be reduced significantly ( 20 db or more ).

I have not seen any independant tests yet, but the room has a significant impact on the performance of any subwoofer. My advice is to go audition the unit, and see for yourself.

[kenratboy]

One thing I will say - it is a proper subwoofer.

I used to own (downstairs in the HT now) the JBL E250P (got it for

$175!) and while it is a serious piece of hardware, when I got the

Klipsch I realized it was in a whole other category.

The JBL got a lot of its output from 'boom' and upper bass noise.

The Klipsch is QUIETER - because it is cleaner and goes lower. It

is well built and looks nice. Also, it is easy to blend into a

system (does not draw attention to itself). One word of warning -

I have the volume set to 3/10 - that is all it needs. There is

SOOOO much headroom on that thing, even with my F3/C3/B3.HK AVR 635

setup. Serious stuff.

For the price I paid, I could not pass it up. I may add another just because.

[Petrol]

...The weight of this sub is a major turn-off...compared to svs and hsu...

eh, you don't plan on having the dang sub sitting on your lap during movies do you?

[sivadselim]

...The weight of this sub is a major turn-off...compared to svs and hsu...

eh, you don't plan on having the dang sub sitting on your lap during movies do you?

LOL! He's commenting upon it's LIGHT weight. []

[Petrol]

I know, but somehow I just couldn't help finding the humor []

btw, why is weight such a factor & where does most of the weight in a sub come from...

most 12" subs have similar sized mags @ about 100-120 oz (5-7 lbs) after that it comes down to the cabinet, which size has quite a bit to do with . . .

the Sub 12 weighs in at 40 lbs with a 18 H x 15 W x 20 D cabinet, supposing that the driver/amp/wiring account for 10 of those pounds, that still leaves 30 lbs for cabinet.

A 3/4" x 4' x 8' sheet of MDF weighs about 75 lbs and a 1/2" sheet of MDF weighs about 55 lbs. so I'm guessing that Klipsch manufactures the cabinet for the Sub 12 using 1/2" MDF with a 3/4" baffle board (or whatever you call it) and adds an adequte amount of internal bracing to stiffen it up enough to be inert.

While I REALLY like to "over-engineer" things I build, I fully understand when a manufacturer choses to use no more or less material then it takes to construct a cabinet for a sub that has to compete in the 'mass-market' world while still delivering the goods.

[TheEAR]

Then add a few bags of lead...ballst the sub. []

[michael hurd]

"It's music first and HT second for one of these 3 sub lines. I'm looking for the same musicality of my M&K mx-70 dual 8 or close to it! I'm into classical organ so i'll need good output from 20-30hz. I'm looking at either Klipsch, HSU or SVS.

The Sub-12...Is there ANY "independant" data in cyberspace beside "117db @ 30Hz"??? does anyone know how this sub will perform in the 20-25hz range? any data to confirm? i've read that it has more excursion than a pb12-isd and is "critically damped" so as to match as closely as possible (for a vented enclosure) a sealed qtc. of .707. Best Buy have them to go at 485.00 online and 509.00 at my local. The weight of this sub is a major turn-off...compared to svs and hsu. The cone material does'nt seem too impressive either but i have'nt heard anything bad about it's sound quality. I really want to buy it but no head to head testing or other "objective" data seems available online (major turn-off two).

How will this thing stack up against a STF-3 or PB-12isd??? thanks..."

I dunno, how about some "independant data" on all the HSU and SVS models.....

Search the net, tell me how much you come up with....

[DrWho]

The sub-12 is 6dB down at 24Hz when corner loaded (which fits in the +-3dB window). The max SPL is very realistic (117dB @ 30Hz in a corner at 1 meter). This means you have at least 111dB @ 20Hz. Klipsch rates the max SPL with a distortion limit....1%THD I believe? I forget...but the reason I bring it up is because the sub CAN play louder.

Technicalities aside, I must say that this is a very very nice sounding sub and Klipsch is definetly back into the "best bang for the buck" competition with the Sub-12. I would also purchase it over any of the equally priced SVS offerings.

[Trey Cannon]

the sub 12 is 3/4 mdf all around...the woofer is about 15 lbs. Paper cone with a large magnet and bumped back plate. the driver can take more power than we let it have. Clean output of the amp is what kept it from playing louder.

If you are wanting something that will play that low with little to no distoration, the RSW line or THX system would be your best bet.

[IAmtnbikr]

I probably got one of the first Sub-12's out there, and bought it just on the numbers that were posted here and NO audition, lol. Am I pleased? That would be an understatement. I had two BIC H-100's for my two systems, and immediately offed one on eBay to make room for the Klipsch. Very nice for both music and HT, we love it!

[strutter]

" Best Buy have them to go at 485.00 on line and 509.00 at my local.

(sorry that quote was from "kramskoi")

The local store will match the web price. I'd print it out for proof just in case the price changes the day you go down. also when i bought mine last week they were also giving a $50 gift card with the purchase of select items , sub 12 included.

you also get the same deal on line and at that time they were giving free shipping.

to me thats a good deal for the sub-12.

no technical data, just my ears, but i have to say i like it very much, especially at that price.

[CAS]

Depends on your listening habbits. If you're looking for 120 @ 20 then you'll have to look elsewhere. Sub-12 is a good sub based on my recent demo's but maybe not for near subsonic organ music in a medium sized room. If you want to stay with Klipsch you'll be looking at the RSW-15 or THX Ultras. Companies like SVS you'll be looking at the plus driver series minimum. VTF-3 in the HSU line.

Unfortunately, if you're looking for subsonics Klipsch isn't usually the value leader. SVS will be your best dollar per dollar value in the 20Hz range second only to DIY or IB.

[colterphoto1]

The sub-12 is 6dB down at 24Hz when corner loaded (which fits in the +-3dB window). The max SPL is very realistic (117dB @ 30Hz in a corner at 1 meter). This means you have at least 111dB @ 20Hz. Klipsch rates the max SPL with a distortion limit....1%THD I believe? I forget...but the reason I bring it up is because the sub CAN play louder.

Technicalities aside, I must say that this is a very very nice sounding sub and Klipsch is definetly back into the "best bang for the buck" competition with the Sub-12. I would also purchase it over any of the equally priced SVS offerings.

Who, when did you finally get a listen to the Sub12? Tell me more. Even though I'm going to go with that 18" JBL rig anyway, if I can afford the space!

Michael

[michael hurd]

Lets try the "other brand" marketing scheme. Buy it from best buy, if you don't like it, return it.[6]

[DrWho]

Who, when did you finally get a listen to the Sub12? Tell me more. Even though I'm going to go with that 18" JBL rig anyway, if I can afford the space!

Michael

at the pilgrimage was my first time....they really had that synergy room kickin. Got to hear it at the best buy up here, but the environment it was in wasn't very condusive to an accurate test. My dad went around comparing subs though on his own and he said they all sounded the same until he tested the sub-12, which was "lightyears beyond everything else" - and my dad isn't one to notice small differences, which just goes to show how vastly better it sounded.

Btw, I still need those driver numbers, both the JBL and EV 18" subs you've got. I'm pretty confident we can re tune your JBL cabinets a bit and get an easy 20Hz []

[Jeff Matthews]

I heard a Klipsch sub with the F3's at Best Buy. It really made rock-n-roll unrealistic. Just WAY too much bass. Would have been good for rap or movie explosions/earthquakes, etc. Just not rock.

[DrWho]

And I would argue that it was most certainly not setup correctly. Did you bother to turn down the volume on the sub and try to blend it with the mains? It's a crappy acoustical environment anyway, but you can get some idea of how it'd sound in a room.

[bismarck]

I work at best buy, selling computers, printer, cameras, stuff in that department. Every now and then i venture over into Home Theater, and i can tell you that our setup is not good .

1. The acoustics, we have it out on the floor, not in a specific room.

2. It is all running off an underpowered amp, even underpowered for the b-3's.

3. The system will not let you put out that much power. Not sure if it is the extremely low quality cable, or what. You can crank the f-3's to +10 and it will be loud, but definately not hurting your ears.

4. People mess wiht all the settings, by the end of the day the reciever has bass turned all the way up. If it is set to 6-channel stereo, 5.1 or 6.1, music or movies etc.. is anybody's guess.