Rick's re-capped AA loaners

[garymd]

You can dismantle the top piece only of you Khorns so it can be pulled off without yanking them from the corners. Rplace taught me that trick. JUST the very top board. Makes it easy to change the settings on Dean's Super AA's which are adjustable.

Many of us have tried the "one at a time" trick and it just doesn't work. There HAS to be an album or two that you've heard SO many times that any change will be noticable.

[BEC]

I would differ with most of my esteemed colleagues on the method for testing a new component in a speaker. If I want to hear a difference between one or the other crossover or driver, I would ALWAYS change one at at time. You can make up all kinds of words for real or imagined audio phenomena like imaging, or soundstage, but those two speakers are two totally separate independent sound sources. You can get close to one speaker and predominately hear it. Then, using sneaker net, run quickly to the other and hear it.

I would wager that I do more of this testing than others on the forum. Did a lot of it today. Doing anything to both speakers at once to see a difference in components is just plain nonsensical to me.

Bob Crites

[Jeff Matthews]

Yeah, all you have to do is lift off the top. Piece of cake because mine were never screwed down even when I bought them. To this day, they have never been screwed down. I'd just as soon leave them that way. Why not?

No night and day, but I think there's less edge on the highs. Let's see what meagain says....

Now, for the rest of you, including Rick. Let's talk about upgrade....

Rick, yours as they are.... how much? versus BEC's re-caps, vs. ALK's vs. SuperAA's, etc.

Decision time will be near, but I don't see a night and day difference - just a nice, sweet tweak - maybe - but I might like to try a faster A/B switch-type comparison.

Rick, what do you say? If I keep 'em. How much?

[Jeff Matthews]

I would differ with most of my esteemed colleagues on the method for testing a new component in a speaker. If I want to hear a difference between one or the other crossover or driver, I would ALWAYS change one at at time. You can make up all kinds of words for real or imagined audio phenomena like imaging, or soundstage, but those two speakers are two totally separate independent sound sources. You can get close to one speaker and predominately hear it. Then, using sneaker net, run quickly to the other and hear it. I would wager that I do more of this testing than others on the forum. Did a lot of it today. Doing anything to both speakers at once to see a difference in components is just plain nonsensical to me. Bob Crites

Bob, glad to see you're near. How could I do a quick A/B switch back and forth so I can go "hmmmmmm [*-)]" without silence gaps in between?

EDIT: Isn't that "confused" emoticon the best for A/B testing? It should be re-named "A/B testing" emoticon.

[BEC]

No good way to swap out complete crossovers instantly, but, if you had the old caps in and new caps to put in, you can rig up an instantaneous switch to swap out one cap at a time to see the difference between, for instance, your old lossy caps and a good new polypropylene cap.

Bob Crites

[Jeff Matthews]

No good way to swap out complete crossovers instantly, but, if you had the old caps in and new caps to put in, you can rig up an instantaneous switch to swap out one cap at a time to see the difference between, for instance, your old lossy caps and a good new polypropylene cap. Bob Crites

Bob, I was thinking you could jumper both crossovers (old and new) from tweeter to to tweeter, mid to mid, etc. That would leave both cross-overs connected as to their outputs. Then, as to the input, you got only 2 wires to move back and forth. What do you think as regards the safety of this? Not electrocution - but speaker damage? I would be less afraid if doing it at moderate volumes. Would this work, and if so, would you recommend it (assuming I will not go to Radio Shack and buy stuff to do this the right way)?

Also, do you know of any popular classic rock tracks that test A/B more definitively? Like for example, Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen" might be a good test for the left speaker. I think you get where I'm going from here, but if not, ask me to clarify. Thanks.

[BEC]

No, don't do that. The only way to do what you are talking about is with enough double pole double throw (on/on) switches to do the input and all the outputs at once. Then you would have the problem of how to operate all the switches at exactly the same time. Not practical.

I will upload you an appropriate test track to test the difference between an old and new crossover if you want me to do that and you have a way to get it from your computer to the speaker.

Bob Crites

[Jeff Matthews]

Thanks, Bob. Test track upload sounds good. I can burn a CD.

I'm not sure of the "why" on your switch answer as I thought all I'd have to do is jumper all the outputs and only have to switch the 2 input wires, which I could do quickly by hand. Maybe I'm using "jumper" wrongly. I mean run the tweet wire to the new xover and then, run a second wire from the tweet connection in the new xover to the tweet connection in the old xover. Do the same for the mids and woofs. That way, both xover outputs are hooked up full-time, and all I would have to do is swap the 2 input wires from the amp real quick. No?

[BEC]

No, the powered crossover would be back feeding the circuitry of the non-powered and powering the drivers at the same time. Don't go there.

Be right back with a test track.

Bob

[Jeff Matthews]

Thanks, Bob. An anticipated question before your post comes....

Should I pay attention to anything particular between left and right speakers? You suggested one at a time, so if I do that, I think I'd run my balance on full-left and full-right for my pre-amp to independently test each speaker.

[3dzapper]

Jeff, Parrallelling the networks won't work. It would load the used network with the unused plus the drivers.

The least expensiveA/B switch box I can think of tonight is a bank of toggle switches. One each for the input, woofer, squaker and tweeter. Or two four input speaker selector boxes. Turn off the inputs then switch the others between networks. PITA!

Rick

Looks like between the time I started this post, typed it, edited it, talkedto the bride and posted it, Bob gave you the same answer.

[BEC]

Ok, here are four test files. The first is something to give the tweeter a workout. Your crossovers with the tired old lossy caps should have a lot of trouble with the nice crisp highs on this thing.

http://www.bandksound.com/little.mp3

Another unrelenting tweeter test.

http://www.bandksound.com/land.mp3

The most intense midrange test track I know of.

http://www.bandksound.com/bew.mp3

Now for the low end. Get ready for a bass happening.

http://www.bandksound.com/myboo.mp3

I would do these listening tests at your normal listening level with the rebuilt crossover in one speaker and the old one in the other speaker. Then just move yourself between the two speakers. Good exercise anyway.

Bob Crites

[Jeff Matthews]

Thanks, I'll get on it!

[Jeff Matthews]

The links aren't connecting.

[BEC]

You will have to just copy and paste them to your browser.

Bob

[Jeff Matthews]

Bob, I had tried to copy/paste to browser before. They just aren't re-directing to the new page. Are they working for anyone else?

[78Khorn]

Worked for me by just copying and pasting to the browser address and hitting go.

[ricktate]

Why cant you put old crossover in left speaker new one in right speaker put mono signal in the system then have someone flip the balance knob back and fourth,,,,,while you try and figure out which is the best...works better if you dont know which one is where though.Another way you can do it is wire left to speaker output A and right speaker to B speaker output so all the switcher has to do is switch the selector switch.The differance will be more than easy to hear that way.I dont think you can listen then switch the crosover out and remember what you just heard.....blose counts on this at best buy..lol.Rick

[Daddy Dee]

Jeff,

If I am following this thread correctly, I am understanding that you discern some but not great difference between the stock and new capped crossovers.

I think this indicates that your original crossovers are not much out of factory spec.

when I first changed crossovers in a pair of 77 lascalas, I was amazed at the difference.

Just an indication that my old xovers were worn out and needed new caps.

[Deang]

Time for that audiogram Jeff.

Why not just load the new networks in, pick a CD that you know really well and like, and just relax and listen to the music. When the CD is finished put the old networks back in. You're comparing two networks of the same type with different parts, so the difference isn't as dramatic as going to a different type network -- but there will be a difference and it should be clearly audible. BTW, bringing a speaker back to spec is not a "tweak"!

Bob,

"Because MP3 is a lossy format, it is able to provide a number of different options for its "bit rate"that is, the number of bits of encoded data that are used to represent each second of audio. Typically rates chosen are between 128 and 256 kilobit per second. By contrast, uncompressed audio as stored on a compact disc has a bit rate of about 1400 kbit/s."