Dylanl Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I want to upgrade from the Dynaco Pam 1 mono pre amps that I have. I do like the loudness switch on vintage equipment. It seems none of the modern pre amps have this. I know, I know, this is altering the signal for the purist, but I like it. In vintage I have been looking for a Mcintosh, Fisher & Scott. I can't find a good one for less than 500.00. I was told to stay away from the Dynaco PAS 3 ( they are still reasonable ). 1) Are there any modern pre amps that would give me what I am looking for? 2) Anyone want to sell a vintage pre? I would also trade the PAM 1s with power supply. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I assume that your budget is $500? I have a VTL Ultimate preamp and love the snot out of it. It cost $1050 used (made in 1991) A great preamp regardless of the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 hi, DylanL ..... how's your speaker project comming along ..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 It may be on the high side of your budget, but a Merlin could be the last preamp you ever buy. One thing on loudness controls, I had always used them on my vintage gear, and IMO it was needed. When I started using the Peach (and also Merlin) I noticed that I didn't miss them. They did such a good job of reproducing the whole spectrum of sound, including bass, the loudness control wasn't missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 That's interesting. So what you are saying is that the newer pre amps don't need a loudness switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 One theroy is vintage preamps circuits were intended to roll off a bit due to limitations in commodity speakers of the day. Most being in console stereos. I like my AMPEX allot but may upgrade in the next few months; most likley not in the next 30 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Dylan, Mark had a good word about preamps and Loudness controls. In my experience, with Khorns, I just didn't miss it at all with Khorns. Another possibility, it could be your room which results in your speakers sounding better with some bass boost. I found this to be true in my room. There is a very easy change in the crossover which helped me out. Changing the squawker from the #4 tap to the #3 tap on the autoformer causes the squawker to pad down by 3dbs. When I heard the results, it was like having new speakers. It doesn't increase the bass, but just slightly limits the volume of the squawker and there is a perceived increase in bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 It may be on the high side of your budget, but a Merlin could be the last preamp you ever buy. One thing on loudness controls, I had always used them on my vintage gear, and IMO it was needed. When I started using the Peach (and also Merlin) I noticed that I didn't miss them. They did such a good job of reproducing the whole spectrum of sound, including bass, the loudness control wasn't missed. I am with Dee. You will need to spend a little more $. Both are very much worth it. Merlin has to be the most cost-effective new preamp out there. good luck, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I am currently running ALK crossovers. I was looking at a Fisher 400CX 1st, Mcintosh c-11 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I totally agree with Dylanl, why would you not offer this feature on newer tube equipment? You don't always need it, but at least it's there. Also, it helps La Scala's. Try an Audio Research SP3A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marems Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I like the variable loudness on the MX132, its great for room correction in the lower frequencies at lower volumes. Its nice to have the option. I think that the C2200 has a loudness function on it but its up there in price. Happy preamp hunting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Good point. I still think its a great feature for low volumes. My wife hates when I crank it up.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 "why would you not offer this feature on newer tube equipment?" ========= In addition to the marketing reason I mentioned before, there's also a practical issue. A properly done loudness control has to "roll out" automatically as you increase volume. Otherwise it's really fairly useless. To do this, requires a volume control with "taps" on it. They don't make these anymore. So, you'd have to special order them from a factory like CTS, Clarostat, Bourns etc. This would require a minimum order of perhaps 5,000 or more likely 10,000 pieces. Since tube preamps are now directed at the high end market, not the mass market, how long do you suppose it would take to sell 10,000 units? Forever. md What is the difference in a contour feature and a loudness feature? Could you not approach it, that way? Or, could you not just build it in a little to be an inherent feature? Anyway, I must be a complete idiot as my current pre-amp was replaced today. I was thinking, in advance "it's sold the minute I get it", but I relented under curiosity and hooked her up this evening: first with the Mosfet B&K, then the Class A MX1, again with no loudness feature. I was shocked and amazed. I'm starting to learn the value of a good pre-amp, period. The Yamaha CX1 $1200 new-late 90's and I believe up to 2002. ( I really just took this with a purchase of an MX1 ebay combined deal) these units were an attempt by Yamaha to show that they could do it as well as some others, if they wanted and they've proved it to me. I know it's not as "in vogue" as some others and it does not have a loudness feature. Now, it does have tone control, so when I hooked up today, I just gave the La Scala's a little nudge in the bass dept. Guess what, I'm starting to come off of my original thoughts as the more premier I get, the less the need for a loudness feature. So far, I'm really taken in by this. Believe me, I've been going through a little progression at a time (including a slight tube fetish, which has not diminished much), researching as I go along with thoughts of Peach in my head. BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 It may be on the high side of your budget, but a Merlin could be the last preamp you ever buy. One thing on loudness controls, I had always used them on my vintage gear, and IMO it was needed. When I started using the Peach (and also Merlin) I noticed that I didn't miss them. They did such a good job of reproducing the whole spectrum of sound, including bass, the loudness control wasn't missed. This sort of sums it up, for me now. Regardless, if it's SS or Tube, put your dough in a good pre-amp. I'd guess what I've realized is that the less purist type pre's probably need the loudness feature, but these others, likely do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marems Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 It all starts at the source... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Dylanl- If your willing to wait a little a little bit and save some more nickles and dimes you can get a decent Mac C33 for about $900 to $1,200. Personally I want a C40 but those are becoming scarce as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Where can I get one for 900? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaffstone Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 You don't really need the taps on the volume potentiometer, just use a tripple gang pot and make a reference voltage with the redundant stage. Then use the wiper to drive the gain on the loudness circuit. A trim pot could be used to 'tune this in'. I suspect loudness is gone from modern pre-amps because of the high end appeal. Most people after the high end tube stuff want straight through signal path and would use a sound processor if they wanted to alter it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Where can I get one for 900? Just keep your eye out on eBay and AudiogoN and one's bound to pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marems Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Dylanl, You might want to look at a C712, its a very nice pre from Mac, its got balanced preouts, loudness control, and just plain sound nice, about the closest to a tube sound you can get from a SS pre. I've seen them go for $650 to $750 on audiogon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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