Couple of basic LaScala Questions

[Frzninvt]

Meagain, use Cornwalls in the rear with Khorn's up front. I was running '78 La Scala rears for awhile before an opportunity to acquire a pair of '62 vertical Cornwalls came along.

What I noticed when I went from the La Scala to the Cornwall in the rear was that the overall tonality of the Cornwall better matched the overall response of the Khorn better making for a smoother transition from front to rear.

I have tried them all in the rear, Heresy's, Cornwalls, Heresy's & Cornwalls, Cornwalls & Cornwalls, La Scala's and Cornwalls, and my current set up. I did notice a bass response loss when I went to the Belle's in the rear, however I gained in the top end and overall bass dynamics since I am running an all horn loaded system. This arrangement can get into the 130db range without a hint of distortion.

[tuned4life]

in one room i currently have 2 pair of cornwalls powered by ss marantz 2325. in another room i have 2 pair of lascalas powered by a marantz 4400. in my opinion lascalas have all the bass that is fit to hear. i certainly dont think they are lacking in bass. the mid horns are out of this world. after comparing the lascalas to cornwalls for a couple months i decided to get a second pair of lascalas.

[jpm]

I have a new pair of lascallas. I ran them for a couple weeks without a sub, and they were ok. Then I happened on a hsu sub and will never run w/o one again. A tight, high-quality sub like the hsu makes the lascalla complete. I also run a bbe sonic maximizer, which has a bypass switch. The subtle enhancement the bbe provides is music to my ears. It also corrects for that "too bright" sound on many of my older cds. For jazz and classical, I simply hit the bypass and turn it off. Simple, and effective. Do I care that many say I shouldn't run a sub and the bbe? Not at all. To each his own.

Anyway, my system sounds terrific, and friends that hear it are generally awestruck. For my ear though, a good sub is imperative.

[Duke Spinner]

Does Everyone forget that PWK designed the LaScala as .... a PA speaker ...???

not for Hi-Fi use, was it's intended purpose at all

[Duke Spinner]

Yea .. the Cornwall mid horn leaves something to be desired .....

Sooooooo.....

CORNSCALA ......[]

[meagain]

Duke - That's exactly what I think would be perfect. Cornwall bass & LaScala upper end. Cornwalls were my initial desire (esp. decorators) because of everyone's comments about their great bass (a rock the house down type of speaker). Didn't even entertain the thought of Khorns (size-wise, and also read some negatives on their bass which now is unfathomable to me). Then I found the khorns. LOVE them!

But we'd like to create a 'system'. I envisioned Chorus II, Forte, KLF-30 (smaller footprint types) for surrounds, but I question how they'll go with the khorns. The Cornwalls have always called to me despite never hearing them.

We also plan to remodel our ranch house (god only knows when cuz we're far from minted) by opening it up and plan both an open large kitchen/dining/family room set up as well as a separate living room on the other end for the major ht set up. Hence, I'll need another set of mains. I of course envision another set of khorns.

Finding another pair locally may take years. Even Cornwalls. Especially with Mr. Corvette in my midst who seems to be striving to take Mr. Colter's crown. It's just a REALLY tight fit over here and if this one darned wall wasn't structural, I'd be at it with a sledgehammer as I speak.

A '78 birch pair of local LaScalas have been offered to me & I'm trying to sort everything out in my head. My gut says to get them and figure everything out later.

I agonized over the khorns too (never heard them before) and now I think to myself 'WTH was I vascillating for'? I just wonder if the LaScalas would be in the same 'no-brainer' camp. Hmmmmm

[heresy2guy]

JC's "DBB" speaker is an evolution of his "Cornscala". You should check that one out - dual bass bins, dual Cornwall K33 woofers, far less cone excursion, much more bass. Sounds like it would be a definite improvement of the Cornscala, which itself is an improvement over the Cornwall and the La Scala.

-H2G

[Mike Lindsey]

Get the La Scala's and be done with it. You will be glad you did.

I plan on doing the same thing but only in reverse. I need a pair of Khorns to be paired with my La Scala's!

Mike

[jpm]

Meagain, if you put a musical sub with the lascallas, you'll be amazed. I had cornwalls. The bass was boomy and loud, the mid-range was thin and muddy and the highs were typical. Yeah, they'd play loud, and when I was 18 the muddy bass was cool.

The lascalla bass is unbelievably tight. A hard-hitting kick drum is phenomenal sounding in the lascalla, even without a sub. I've heard lots of cornerhorns, and as a whole I think they're awesome. My house will NOT accommodate a set because I have no dedicated corners and false corners won't work either. Therefore, I've created the sound closet to the mighty cornerhorn with my lascallas and Hsu vtf-3 sub. Actually, to me, they now sound better than some cornerhorn set-ups (sans sub) I've heard.

The cornwall guys may crucify me for this post, but I think the lascalla blows away the cornwall in every catagory.

[Jeff Matthews]

It's just a REALLY tight fit over here and if this one darned wall wasn't structural, I'd be at it with a sledgehammer as I speak.

Knocking out a structural wall? No problem. I've done a few already. Give yourself a full week-end, and you'll be there.

You have joists coming from both directions and resting on the top plate of the wall to be removed. They probably overlap each other (they should). If you find the joists run parallel to the wall to be removed, the wall is not load-bearing, and you can skip all the following and whip out your sledge-hammer. If the joists are in fact perpendicular to the wall to be removed, read on.

You will need hammers, good sized crowbars, a saws-all (reciprocating saw), a good drill and a chop-saw (miter saw). Not too much in the way of tools. It is nice to have a nail gun for some framing, but if you don't, no big deal.

You need to frame out 2 temporary walls about 1.5 - 2 feet from the middle of the wall that you will knock out. Just normal walls - a bottom plate, a top plate, and 2x4 studs on 16" centers (placed right below the joists). These hold up the joists while you knock out the load-bearing wall. You don't need to worry about framing these walls real straight and making them pretty because you will remove them at the end. Do make sure the temporary walls are real tight against the floor and ceiling. You don't want the joists to sag when you remove the old wall.

Knock out the wall. Remove sheetrock in the ceiling to the inside edges of the top plates of the 2 temporary walls (you'll need to be working in there).

Now, determine the beam material to use. You can get away with the same beam dimensions as the joists (e.g. if your joists are 2x10's, go with 2x10's for the beam - that way you can conceal the entire beam within the ceiling and you'll have one continuous room with no columns or headered openings). You also need to determine what you will use based on how far the beam-spanned opening will be. I had a 12-foot opening in 2 places, so I used 2 2x10's and a 1/4" thick x 8 steel plate in between them. I did the same for a 16 foot opening.

Using what I had for example, 2 2x10's + a 1/4" thick steel plate calls for about a 3.5" total beam thickness. Therefore, you would pop a chalk line straight down the center of where the old wall was, then divide 3.5" by two (leaving 1.75"), and pop additional chalk lines 1.75" out from both sides of the center line. These two outside lines is where you will cut the joists.

Cut all the joists along your outside chalk lines with the saws-all. If you have trouble accessing this with a regular saws-all like I did, you can buy one of those saws-alls by Porter Cable (at Lowe's) that allows you to turn the handle up to 90 degrees. This reduces the amount of space the tool takes up and allows you to get it in between joists much easier.

After cutting the joists, you will then have a slot into which you can place your beam. Of course, the beam must be supported on the ends, which I assume would be walls perpendicular to the wall you are removing.

Cut the beam material to proper length. You can cut the steel plate using a metal-cutting blade on your saws-all.

Using my 2x10's and steel plate example, you would put the first 2x10 in the slot, and let it rest on the perpendicular top plates or studs (whatever you have). Pre-drill bolt holes in the steel plate, making sure the location of the holes for bolts will not be covered by your joists when you put the steel plate in. Then, place the steel plate on the 2nd 2x10, making sure it is aligned flush with 1 of the edges of the 2x10 (that edge will be the lower edge when the beam is installed). Once the plate is aligned on the 2x10, drill the 2x10 for the bolts by drilling through the same holes you drilled into the plate.

Then, put the steel plate in right next to the 1st 2x10 you installed. Then, put the 2nd 2x10 in. While you are working on this part, DO NOT LET THIS STUFF FALL, OR IT WILL DEFINITELY HURT YOUR HEAD. Do whatever is appropriate to make sure it is secured in place until you can attach it all.

Use lag screws to attach all 3 pieces snugly. Use screws that are long enough to penetrate almost completely through the entire beam. Use hex-head screws and the right-sized bit with your drill to drive them in snug.

Finally, use joist hangers with the nails that are sold on the shelf right next to the hangers to support the joists against the new beam. Remove the temporary walls. Cover up your mess with new sheetrock and paint to match. You will have a gap in flooring material where the old wall was removed. You'll need to do something about that - whether it's re-carpeting, tiling, Pergo, wood floor, etc.

BTW: You might wonder why I used 1/4 x 8 steel with 2x10's. In steel, 10" is 10". In wood, 10" is 9.5". If I used 1/4 x 10 steel, the plate would have been too wide and not fit into the ceiling.

Also, you will likely have to do a little electric work to disable outlets that were on the wall - no big deal. You might have plumbing in the wall. If you have plumbing (inlcuding gas line plumbing, double the time and allow 2 week-ends.

If you have a span that is considerably longer or your joists are less than 2x10's, your beam materials might have to change.

There you go, DIY carpentry 102! []

[meagain]

"A hard-hitting kick drum is phenomenal" This alone is INCREDIBLY important to me.

It looks like we're going to check them out (not purchase) on Saturday. I don't think they'll be able to be cranked which is a tad of a concern. Mostly because of this 'rattle' issue I read about. Not sure if I can tell without cranking.

Jeff - LOL!!! Piece of cake. There must have been really bad drugs going around in the late 50's. I can't even fathom their thought processes when they built this house. We're on an acre of land and the friggin' garage is wide enough for 2 cars IF you walk sideways to get to them with the result of dirty clothes from semi-rubbing against the cars! But to redo this area is going to need a serious construction crew.

[Jeff Matthews]

Beam project.

[Jeff Matthews]

A look at the beam.

[DrWho]

JPM, what kind of music, source, and amplifier were you listening to?

And was the comparison done in the same room? I can only imagine that

you felt the cornwall was boomy because your source material had boomy

bass recorded to it....and the lascala won't even reproduce those notes

so what you're percieving as "cleaner" is actually a lacking response.

If you prefer this sound then great - nothing wrong with that, but it

doesn't mean the cornwall is at fault.

[jpm]

Dr Who-

I ran my cornwalls with a Denon integrated 80 watt amp. I recall it was the PMA2000. I also had a Denon cd player. So granted, they were not the best electronics out there, but they were clean and the Denon 2000 ain't half bad. I also had a Phillips turntable that I used at times. I'm not bashing the cornwalls guys, just stating that in MY opinion, after owning both and also RF7's, the lascalla WITH A GOOD SUB is a better fit for MY ears.

I'd also like to mention that the rf7 and cornwall bass sound about the same to me... loud but mildly muddy.

The lascalla bass is much more animated and lifelike. We buy horns because we like the efficiency... that should carry over to the bass as well.

[Mike Lindsey]

I agree about the kickdrum on the La Scala. Listen to Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow album (on vinyl). You would think the drummer is sitting in the room with you. Phenomenal!

Mike

[Jeff Matthews]

The old load-bearing wall is gone.

[meagain]

Jeff - You're telling me that was a load-bearing wall? Where are your khorns & corns? I don't see them.

[Duke Spinner]

I agree about the kickdrum on the La Scala. Listen to Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow album (on vinyl). You would think the drummer is sitting in the room with you. Phenomenal!

Mike

huh...??

you mean the Head Slap , the Top end of the Kick ...at 150 hz ..

not the Meat......[].

[Jeff Matthews]

Yes, that was load-bearing. See how the joists run perpendicular to the beam? They used to rest on top of the old wall. Now, they're tied into to the beam. Pretty easy if you get past the conceptual hurdle. The speakers are in an upstairs room. By the way, the beam holds the second floor up. There's a bedroom right above that beamed opening. Nothing to it. In fact, if you look in the background, you can see a second beamed-opening of about 12 feet in width. That's 2 of 5 beamed openings we did.