Allan Songer Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 As most of you know, I am a HUGE fan of early mono LPs--old deep groove mono Blue Notes, Prestiges, Contemporarys, Transitions, Pacifc Jazz, etc are among my most prized possesions. I feel there is a liveliness in these old grooves that has NEVER been matched by more modern techiques. Anyway, I have been using Ortofon SPU catrdiges for the past dozen years or so and when playing my monos I have simply switched the mono switch on my preamp and sat back and enjoyed. But recently I have been wondering what these old records would sound like if I were to play them with the cartridge that was DESIGNED to play them, a mono-only Ortofon with a 25 micron conical stylus, the Ortfon CG25: I ordered a new one back in October but they have been on backorder for months--seem that Ortofon waits until there are several on order and then they do a run of them. Guy Landau knew I had ordered one and dropped me a note about three weeks ago telling me there was one on Audiogon for $300 and so I snapped it up---THANKS GUY!! I am now about a week into listening with this new cartidge, which is essentially an identical copy of the FIRST moving coil cartridge from 1948--only the suspension has been updated. It's a TRUE mono cartidge in that it has vertical compliance ONLY and a single armature motor--this cartridge will DESTROY a stereo record!! Luckily it takes only about 15 mintues to change cartridges when using the SME/SPU combonation! The 25micron conical stylus rides a bit higher and tighter in the gvoove that the 17 micron stylus used in the standard SPU--this combined with the total lack of horizontal compliance makes "VG-" old LPs sound MUCH quieter than I have ever heard them!! I was just spinning my copy of "Mobley's Message" on Prestige which is truly in "beat minus" condition--just BARELY listenable with any previous cartridge I have owned, but with the CG25 the surface noice recedes just enough to make playing the record satisfying--it doesn't disappear-it just fades into the background. And the sound? EXPLOSIVE!! I have never heard snare drums SNAP at me like this! Earlier this morning I was listening to Blue Note 1508--The Jazz Messengers at Cafe Bohemia and Blakey was IN THE ROOM with me. The CG25 isn't as "lush" sounding as the stereo SPU--the upper-bass forwardness that is the SPU signature sound is still there, but not as pronouced--but if you love the SPU you'll be ALL OVER the CG25. The CG25 tracks at between 3 and 4 grams and I have settled on 3.3 grams in my system. It has a 1.5 mv output (the SPU is at .2 mv) and Ortofon gives no reccomondations as to loading other than ">100 ohms." I have found that I like the CG25 best when running them throuh the JS transformers and then backing WAY off on the gain of the MC30s. I have also run the cartridge directly into the C22 with no step-up, but it's a bit "thin" sounding when hooked up that way. Best $300 bucks I've spent in a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Very Very interesting Alan !!!!!! I am a bit tired of the surround hype because i think it has nothing with MUSIC. As a matter of fact i have a Turntable recently from mine brother . The cartridge isn't used for almost 18 years ! It is a Kiseki Blue mc cartridge and i have send it for repair . Anyway , it is nice to have Art Blakey in the room , great drummer.... and "only" with phono......... Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Very interesting Allan. I'd love to try something similiar with my Thorens. I too have tons of old mono jazz LPs that have seen better days. Maybe this is just the ticket. I think I'll look into the Denon cart you sent me info for just to see if it's something I'd like to seiously pursue. Glad you found a better way to enjoy all of those old monos!!! You can't beat the music and good copies are getting rarer and more expensive by the minute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 You'll get no arguement from me. Even PWK once referred to stereo as "diluted". Back then I didn't understand what he meant, but now I do. Dave Mallet & I once discussed using a truely mono center channel as the main, with the flanking speakers simply adding some of the stereo "space". I've said it before, and I'll say it again. "Sometimes it's amazing how far we haven't come!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 "Sometimes it's amazing how far we haven't come!" Amen its this so called modern age. I grew up watching and reading sci-fi and what I want to know is where is my rocket pack, flying car, moon vacation and venus women! We never got there [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 My next TT will definitely have multiple arms. One for mono and one for stereo. I would really love to hear some of your vinyl in my system Allan. Sounds like your jazz collection is far better than mine. Prestige and Blue Notes.......whew........I can listen to them all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 My next TT will definitely have multiple arms. One for mono and one for stereo. I would really love to hear some of your vinyl in my system Allan. Sounds like your jazz collection is far better than mine. Prestige and Blue Notes.......whew........I can listen to them all day. Often I do listen to them all day! Collecting jazz records has been a passion/obsession of mine for almost 30 years. I have original copies of every Blue Note and Contemporary and all but a small handful of the Prestiges, MOST of the Riversides and Norgran/Clef/Verves.,Impulses. And a lot of the really rare ones too--Transtion, Jazz West, Intro, Signal, Time, Bethlehem, ESP, Strata-East, Horo, Jaro. etc. I have been hitting swap-meets and buying mail order for years and since ebay came around it's gotten better in many ways--I now have a way to SELL rare records I find that are duplicates for big bucks--but I always end up spending the money on more records . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Allan, Just a quick question - is this new mono cartridge RIAA compliant? In other words - do you run it straight into a normal phono input or do you have a specific phono stage just for mono? I have to say that every now and then I get the urge to setup a mono system within the stereo so to speak. My table supports 3 arms and I could just use one of the existing speakers dragging a chair over to be directly in front of it. Just don't know how things work on the phono stage front. Also - anyone know anything about the Denon 102? I understand it is a mono cartridge but have no more info on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Normal phono stage. The Denon 102 is a giant killer. One of the great values at about $150 US--plus if you screw up and drop the needle on a stereo record it won't hurt anything as it moves in both planes and has a 17 micron tip(even though it is truly a mono cartrdige). It was developed "back in the day" for broadcast use.http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DenonMonoPage.htmYou will need a real beast of a tonearm to make the Denon work--something like the SME 3009/3012 or the Fidelity Research FR64. It is a high-output MC cartridge and it tracks at 3.5-4 grams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Allan- Very interesting and enjoyable. I can still hear my late father (a mechanical engineer) saying (c. 1965) that a quality mono rig is better than a typical stereo rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Allan, Just a quick question - is this new mono cartridge RIAA compliant? In other words - do you run it straight into a normal phono input or do you have a specific phono stage just for mono? I have to say that every now and then I get the urge to setup a mono system within the stereo so to speak. My table supports 3 arms and I could just use one of the existing speakers dragging a chair over to be directly in front of it. Just don't know how things work on the phono stage front. Also - anyone know anything about the Denon 102? I understand it is a mono cartridge but have no more info on it. Max What you need is this. Buddy of mine just pick this up. I think this is a very rare unit. Dual Mono Dynavector pre with 3 Phono stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 There is definately a benefit to mono at times. Last night I was listening to "Horowitz Plays Rachmaninoff". There is something about a twenty one foot wide piano that is disconcerting.-( It sounds more like three people playing three pianos. The one on the left plays low, the right plays high, and the one in the middle plays the tune. Switching the BBx to mono put the piano in the center as a single source. The way it is supposed to be. -) Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 In case anyone is interested, I have some record related things I would like to offer for sale: Esoteric Sound Vintage Turntable RPMs are 33.33, 45, 71.29, 76.59, 78.26, and 80 Includes: Stanton L720EE cartridge Stanton D71EE stylus .7 mil for 45 and 33.33 RPM Rek-O-Kut D500-3M special 2.7 mil, 78 stylus (1.75 gm tracking) Vertical / Lateral switch http://www.esotericsound.com/turntable.htm#Vintage Don't have 78's? I also have a collection of more than 1500 78's mostly from the 30's I would like to sell. Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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