"Eclipse" Cornerhorns? What the ....?

[Bill H.]

Steve,

I am glad he finally, at least, lost the Klipsch naming part of his ad!

[boom3]

Corvette, re: wood wedges in the throat:

This refers to a thread about the "splitter" facing the woofer that is the first division of the two parts of the horn. I think this is the Type G Motorboard upgrade that appeared sometime in the 60s. Paul told me that the 'splitter" improved performance at the top end of the horns ranage, so the action is rather like a phase plug in a HF horn. I'd like to see that thread again myself and take the time to review current thought on it.

[Corvette6769]

Sure will be glad when the forum's own search function is back working again.

Amy said that it should be any day now

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/695944/ShowPost.aspx

[ZAKO]

JT......The F-15 Eagle fighter & the Russion 25 FoxBat look the same The Russions did not copy the F15. The function of both plane forced both airplanes to follow certain aero dynamic shapes to perform optimumly, so they look simmilar. A friend of mine was born in Hong kong. I asked him dont you miss that great city? He said well if he went back there he would look the same as every body else. I asked why he didnt marrey a American girl? He said round eye American look ugly. Whats in a name like Klipsch? Or Tannoy ? Tannoy is now almost conciderd a generic name for speaker in europe. Klipschorn is now approaching that generic problem now. I still use that name when explaining my speaker...But mine shure does,nt look like a Klipschorn. As yet i havent been burnt at the stake for useing that name. Like Paul Klipsch said to George Ashworth. My horn is a tweekers dream.

[Mike Lindsey]

Like Paul Klipsch said to George Ashworth. My horn is a tweekers dream.

I may have said this once or twice myself. []

[ZAKO]

Yes Yes yes!!!!!!!And now look what Bob Crites is doing. Ai,nt it wonderful? A tweekers dream come true. THAT JT....Is the POINT!!!!!

[HarleyMo]

Maron, do you really think the Russians had absolutely no information on the F-15 that influenced the FoxBat. It may not be an exact copy, but you know thats what they started with. The Russians are notorious for copying western, especially US aircraft designs. The Tu-4 which was a copy of the B-29 Superfortress. The Tu-160 Blackjack which was a copy of the US B1 bomber and a miserable one at that. I agree with what your trying to say about the Klipschorn design. As long as hes not trying to pass them off as the real thing, more power to him. Hell, Im getting ready to build some for my own personal use. But lets not give our Russian friends too much credit in the aircraft design department. lol

[ZAKO]

HarleyMo.......Yes the Russions copyied some of our bombers. But the FoxBat 25 was a exception. As well as 27 & 29 all with very powerful engines. The could stand the plane on its tail & hover in mid air. But most of the espionage Ive seen has been between our own aircraft companys. I remember some of our marketing guys coming back from the pentagon. After seeing something on a Generals desk. They came back trying to describe the plane as i tried to sketch their discription. I was shocked at what was configured at the end of my pencil. Later when it was officially rolled out It was the B-2 bomber. We had some thing similar as a fighter on our minds. But was still born.

[jt1stcav]

Yes Yes yes!!!!!!!And now look what Bob Crites is doing. Ai,nt it wonderful? A tweekers dream come true. THAT JT....Is the POINT!!!!!

No, Maron, that is NOT the point! Once you purchase your Klipschorns, Cornwalls, RF-7s, old H.H. Scott or Fisher tube amp, JoLida JD-100 tube CD player, old Linn or AR belt-drive turntable, whatever, you can modify and tweak the hell out of 'em 'till your heart's content. I never said there was anything wrong with that. My point is this eBay seller obviously has a talent (if he's honest) in building a good sounding corner placement horn-loaded loudspeaker system (hey, more power to him). But instead of going back to the drawing board and designing his own original cornerhorn cabinets, he blatantly copies PWK's Klipschorn cabinet design instead and names them Eclipse and sells them on the internet. It may just be perfectly legal to do what he and Shinall are doing (since they're not selling them with the Klipsch name and logo), but IMO it's a farce! I don't care if their Klipschorn-clones are the best sounding loudspeakers in the world, it's just (IMO) morally wrong to copy another man's research and design and then turn around and build their own copies, advertise them as their own design, and sell 'em. If this eBay seller wants to impress me with his fabulous cornerhorn design, then he should go the whole nine yards and design a new cornerhorn cabinet from scratch, one that doesn't even remotely resemble a Klipschorn!

That, Maron, IS the point!

[Vital]

I agree with JT and the others. I think it wouldnt have bothered me if he hadnt tried to use the Klipsch name to push his knock-offs. His attitude along with the fact that he doesnt have a store-front, website or anything else pretty much makes this guy seem like a shady character to say the least. He hasnt sold one item on Ebay so that last auction with the comments about how great they were from a supposed buyer is pretty shady as well.

Either way, defend him if you want. To me he seems like a slimey half-wit trying to get over on someone.

[jt1stcav]

I'll go as far to say that I would give him the benefit of the doubt if he came up with an all original cornerhorn design, like PWK did 60 years ago. Sure there are other cornerhorns out there from other manufacturers during Paul's time (I don't recall who at the moment...), and as far as I know not a single one of them is a Klipschorn duplicate, but of their own unique design and aesthetics! I wouldn't have any problem with this seller (or Shinall) if only they didn't clone Klipschorn almost exactly to a "T", then name them as their own design and sell them as such. That's just unethical IMO, I don't care if they're using the best parts money can buy! Tweaking and modding is one thing (that's fine with me)...copying the Klipschorn (even with the best drivers/parts available), then selling them as your own design is strictly something else! At least the seller stopped using the Klipsch name in his auctions, but until he comes up with his own original design, he doesn't impress me one bit. Sorry you don't agree, Maron.

[ZAKO]

The Delgado/Klipsch Jubilee does,nt impress me as being original either, as its based on the JBL Hartsfield horn. Like I stated early in this debate, after awhile all large folded horns of this size will look simmiler. Just like the F15 Eagle & 25 FoxBat....fighters. I remember when a Russion piolet defected to the West with his Foxbat fighter.. ...England, Isreal. & the United States, were all over that plain. Russia wanted that plain back emmidiately. We took the FoxBat completely apart & photographed & back engineered every part...The Russion were really putting the squeez on us diplomaticly. After we were done we packed the parts in a crate & gave the plane back to the Soviets. We learned a hell of alot from that plane warts and all. Get off your point counter point argument, the damage is done, Two guys are making & selling a corner horn that looks like the Khorn. & the Jubilee horn shure looks like a close cousen to the Hartsfield. VitaVox under licence made a better & more robust version of the Khorn but its outer cabinet design was more Art Deco in design. The Klipschorn 50th anniversary cabinet was a Art Deco design. Paul didnt like the looks & production stopped. But the cat was out of the bag. The last pair of the rare units sold in Springfield Mo. last month.

[jt1stcav]

A loudspeaker design being based from another design and looking similar to it isn't the problem as long as it isn't a near exact copy of it (and the Jubilee looks nearly nothing like the Hartsfield, or the fancier VitaVox for that matter). Of course there will be similarities...they're cornerhorn speakers; for that matter basically all loudspeakers in the same genre look similar (i.e. 2-way cone/dome bookshelfs, 3-way floorstanding towers, planars, electrostatics, etc). But you're talking in similarities...that's all well and good. The Hartsfield, VitaVox, Eckhorn, et al are all well respected horn-loaded loudspeakers, not only because they sound superb, but because they also have their own unique aesthetics and cabinet design...and aren't exact clones to Klipschorns!

Time to get off my soapbox...but as far as I'm concerned, the builders of Eclipse and Shinall have no imagination at all, no matter how good or bad sounding their Klipschorn clones may be. They won't ever spark my interest until they both can create an original cabinet design that's not a copy of PWK's Klipschorns...period!

[ZAKO]

As my moma done told me. Dont date the beautiful girls, date the plain ones. When they break up with you & leave you. You wont feel so bad.

[Corvette6769]

They're back! This time with the "Make an offer" option.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5881399610

[Corvette6769]

They're back again. Ever hear of a manufacturer that did not ship their product?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9703992291

[codhead]

And I see his "customers" have already chimed in as well (see the

questions at the bottom of the ad). Something strange about that.

[D-MAN]

You guys are being overly harsh, judgmental and self-righteous. This guy isn't doing anything wrong!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And most good cabinet makers are NOT particularily good horn designers! Sorry, but you NEED to accept some facts.

Be honest: Do you REALLY think that he is going to steal customers from Klipsch?

Probably not. Then what is all the huffing and puffing all about?

DM

[D-MAN]

So .jpgs don't work no more? Dang this new-fangled forum computer crap!

DM

[D-MAN]

Corvette, re: wood wedges in the throat:

This refers to a thread about the "splitter" facing the woofer that is the first division of the two parts of the horn. I think this is the Type G Motorboard upgrade that appeared sometime in the 60s. Paul told me that the 'splitter" improved performance at the top end of the horns ranage, so the action is rather like a phase plug in a HF horn. I'd like to see that thread again myself and take the time to review current thought on it.

Good heavens, NO! None of the above!

The throat splitting wedge existed well before the 60's. See attached 1957 Klipsch brochure showing a cut-through Khorn and note the splitting wedge in the (at the time 6x13") throat.

Also, it is a hard-surface 45 degree reflector, not a phase plug! No phase correction going on there - let me ask, how is it correcting phase issues? Well, it's doesn't and it never has and never will!

Also in 1962, when Klipsch switched to the from the EV woofer to the CTS, the throat cavity was experimented with, and ended up being narrowed to the 3x13" that we see today. Some Khorns left the factory with additional wedges (evidently experimental) in the throat area AS WELL AS the traditional splitting wedges. I want to say that forum member LarryC had a pair, if I remember correctly. He removed them - they sounded BAD.

DM