KungFuNat Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 well i've had my cornwalls for almost a year now, and i listen to them every day. i've had the crossovers rebuilt by bob crites, and have replaced the tweeter diaphragms with titanium... at volumes around 60-70db or lower they sound like heaven... once they get beyond that, they become increasingly harsh and its starting to piss me off.. i'm guessing this is a problem with my pre-amp, but im not exactly sure. I know that my power amp mates well with klipsch, and my marantz cd-player has a slightly warm sound. could it be my cables? i use audioquest diamondback and king-cobra ICs, which i bought because they were cheap and they seemed to be built well. I have been eying a used EAD pre/pro for a preamp+dac, but these are hard to find and they usually command a price of well over $1000.. right now, i am limited to a budget of $500-600. I would love to try tubes, but i absolutely must have a remote control, and i dont want to deal with the maintenance of tubes(manual biasing). what do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Hello, Notice you changed to titanium diaphrams,not sure on those thought they were supposed to be harsher. What is your room like,if it is very live as in few objects to absorb sound you could be interpeting that as harsh.Experiment with some sound absorbing devices.Mainly on the side walls or even behind your listening position. Speaker placement might be contributing to the sound,are they toed in as to not reflect to much into the side walls. Tubes will help reduce the harshness only after you have looked into your room first,check into a tube preamp that has remote volume,many do now.Most tube equipment is self biasing these days.The only maint. you should have to do is change the tubes because they have a finite life similar to a light bulb. I doubt if your cables are the problem.In my expierience copper conductors like your audioquest are not harsh,its when you go to silver conductors and SS gear it tends to get a little zippy or harsh IMHO. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 thatt's a Cornwall .... great at low volume, but that mid horn can start to shriek when ya cranker' up .. i don't see titanium, as improving the sound, but then, i haven't done that what about dampening the horn ..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 quick .!! by some Chorus 2's ..[6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Going to the titanium diaphrams was not really a good thing if you are sensitive to brightness, you should have replaced them with the standard phenolic diaphram. Titanium tweeters have always sounded bright and obnoxious to me. That is why I always hated the MB Quart component sets for cars, I can't stand those metal tweeter diaphrams. I hope you put some acoustic panels in that hollow CII cabinet as well it echoes like a canyon if you rap on the side of it with your knuckles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 "I have been eying a used EAD pre/pro for a preamp+dac, but these are hard to find and they usually command a price of well over $1000.. right now, I am limited to a budget of $500-600. I would love to try tubes, but i absolutely must have a remote control, and i dont want to deal with the maintenance of tubes(manual biasing)." You MUST get an amp/preamp combo hooked up to these that will be more smooth. In particular, your PREAMP, because that has as much to do with your system sound as ANY electronic item in your rig. The right choice of preamp will assist in taming much of the harshness in the system. If you want my take, you NEED a tube preamp. There are several on this forum who have tried a JuicyMusic preamp with solid state amps and have obtained big benefits. Remember that your speakers will amplify EVERY bit of distortion and sibilance present in the system. You must get rid of that - and it starts with your pre. The remote requirement severely limits your choices. It's difficult enough to find a truly good sounding piece of gear at a good price - but it's even tougher doing that with remote. You can get a JM Merlin new for $800 - I'll bet that cools the harshness down, indeed. No remote, though. Owning a tube preamp like a JM shouldn't be a lot of maintenance. Amps are more of an issue with output tube matching/bias issues - preamps not much trouble at all (with exception of a very occasional tube replacement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intotubes Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Going to the titanium diaphrams was not really a good thing if you are sensitive to brightness, you should have replaced them with the standard phenolic diaphram. Titanium tweeters have always sounded bright and obnoxious to me. That is why I always hated the MB Quart component sets for cars, I can't stand those metal tweeter diaphrams. I hope you put some acoustic panels in that hollow CII cabinet as well it echoes like a canyon if you rap on the side of it with your knuckles. Where do you get phenolic diaphragms? When I replaced mine I thought BEC said they weren't available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 What kind of music do you listen to? I have found that the Cornwall is a pretty lousy speaker for loud Rock or electric Blues --ESPECIALLY when "cranked up." My Tannoys are so much better for this kind of music it's not even a fair comparison. HOWEVER! The Cornwall is THE best speaker I have ever owned for playing acoustic jazz--even at VERY high volumes (for me that is 90db or so). And vocals? Especially female jazz vocals--the Cornwall is KING!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Alan .... is exactly ..right ..[] the CW was voiced for jazz .... not rock at volume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 what size room, how close are the walls, any acoustic treatment?[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 If they were voiced by PK then it was done using marching band music. None of these speakers are harsh, just ask Bob Crites and Tony Reed -- perfect speakers through and through just the way they are. The harshness is all in your head -- you can ignore it. You see, it's just that the sound is so clean and distortion free you can actually hear the dust particles flicking off the lens of your CD player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 LaScala and red wine for any occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Nat, I wasn't familiar with your amp, so I read a few reviews. Interestingly, some of the reviews sounded like your description of the problem you are having. There was mention that there was a bug or two in the implementation of the Nelson Pass circuit, esp. feedback. Can you borrow another amp .. say a moderate power PWM (digital), or Crown D-45, maybe the Crown D-75A. Nice thing about the Crown is you can try with and without your preamp. In any event, I suggest you try a few alternate amps and see if that's the main problem. Your problem is different from the usual ss harshness at low volume so maybe the Cornwall is a big factor. I listened to Thebes' Cornwalls. They didn't seem to change with volume, but I suspect I didn't hear what you would call "loud." Good luck, Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 In order to determine whether the "harshness" is real or perceived, take some measurements. If your response is relatively flat on top, then it is either you tastes, sources (i.e. music or quality of components) and/or pre/amp. If not (i.e. significant measureable peaks) then you have room and/or driver anomalies to deal with. If I had corns that were "bright" and measured hot on top, I would optimized room position as best as I could first (even try less toe in, that's a quick way of knocking down the top end) and then consider xover or EQ. For quick easy measurements just get an Radio Shack (analog prefered) dB meter (I'm sure there are other options) and a test CD with test tone. In all my years of messing (since I really don't know what I am doing) around, there is one thing that I am sure of....flatter (frequency responce that is) is better... It does not guarantee great sound, but in my opinion with a given set of drivers, they will sound better when the responce is generally flatter. I'm sure someone will have an exception to that rule or otherwise discount it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 thatt's a Cornwall .... great at low volume, but that mid horn can start to shriek when ya cranker' up .. i don't see titanium, as improving the sound, but then, i haven't done that what about dampening the horn ..?? Yep, that's the way I remember mine, too. Frustrating, 'cause I really wanted to like them. Best result I got was with a pair of Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amps. Finally fixed it right with a pair of Altec 19's [][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 the cornwalls are in my living room witch is about 15x30 and they are about 6 feet apart about 10 feet away from the listening position and toed in about 15 degrees. my walls are pretty bare, but there is a large area rug and I sit on a couch. unfortunately i dont have much room to fiddle around with placement. the thing that really gets me is that i have a pair of triangle speakers i use for HT and they dont exhibit the same harshness at high volumes with the exact same equipment. in fact, over all, the triangles HF performance is a touch better than the cornwalls all around. BUT, i wouldnt trade the triangles for my cornwalls for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 thatt's a Cornwall .... great at low volume, but that mid horn can start to shriek when ya cranker' up .. i don't see titanium, as improving the sound, but then, i haven't done that what about dampening the horn ..?? Yep, that's the way I remember mine, too. Frustrating, 'cause I really wanted to like them. Best result I got was with a pair of Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amps. Finally fixed it with a pair of Altec 19's [][][] Yes ...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Until you gets some measurements, everyone is just guessing. If you response up top is nearly flat, changes like components are likely the right direction. If you have a serious bump or dip, a component change is NOT going to correct it you will need placement or EQ or crossover changes. Cornwall's can have flat response and sound very balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 uh oh ... klipsch police gonna get me.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Until you gets some measurements, everyone is just guessing. If you response up top is nearly flat, changes like components are likely the right direction. If you have a serious bump or dip, a component change is NOT going to correct it you will need placement or EQ or crossover changes. Cornwall's can have flat response and sound very balanced. he Fixed it .....! pay attention .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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