Tom Adams Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 There is an awesome article in the April issue of Motor Cyclist magazine about H*nda's RC174 Six. Not only is there insight into Honda's prowness for innovation, but of a man who re-created, basically from scratch, 6 RC174's. Simply amazing...... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 The article and pictures are simply amazing. An F1 engine fabricator in France had trouble with the precision required to build the engines. Some of the metalurgy was unknown to todays science. Since Honda did not keep drawings, or specs, some details could not be reproduced. This is technology that might as well have been "code word" classified that we can now see for the first time in 40 years! This engine turned as much as 19k RPM in 1966! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I'm not much in the way of a motorcycle guy, but my dad's current bike is a 05 Honda ST1300 ABS, his last few bikes that I can remember have been a 98 CBR600F3, 99 Nighthawk 750, 01 ST1100, 02 Goldwing 1800 (all Honda) he's been in the motorcycle thing since around 15 I think, and will only buy Honda's, maybe one day I will get a bike, but right now I'll stick to 4 wheels. Actually it's mostly an insurance issue for me at 21. Out of all the bikes he's ever owned, he told me the Goldwing was his least favorite, just too big. Many people would think it's a downgrade from a Goldwing to an ST1300 but not in his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooting_monkey Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I wouldn't doubt that there have been several prototypes by Suzuki and Honda that have been pulling nearly 30K rpms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 I wouldn't doubt that there have been several prototypes by Suzuki and Honda that have been pulling nearly 30K rpms. Well - yes and no. Yes at the time of failure, but no from an operational perspective. Some years ago (actually around the time of the RC174) H*nda did some research about the combustion process in a 4-stroke engine. Specifically, they wanted to know what the maximum RPM was that true combustion could be supported. Their findings were that 4-stroke combustion could be supported at a maximum sustained RPM of around 27,500 IIRC. Now, when you think about that number, you'll realize that's an insane figure. At that RPM, piston speed is damn near off the chart (depending of course on the bore & stroke of the engine). Additionally, the technology that H*nda had to develop just to be able to run their tests is amazing as well. BTW - unlike the "redline" on a car, on a motorcycle the "redline" is the maximum RPM that can be sustained without engine damage. Cars need not apply. [] Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 BTW - unlike the "redline" on a car, on a motorcycle the "redline" is the maximum RPM that can be sustained without engine damage. Cars need not apply. [] Tom There is a video online of a 1992 (I believe) Mazda RX-7 that had over 100k miles on it, the guys were going to do an engine swap so they decided to see how long it could go wide open, it lasted I think something like 32 minutes at 9k rpm, pretty impressive. Then again the Wankel Rotary design is a lot different then typical piston/cylinder. Anyway after watching the whole video out of bordom, I was kinda thinking to myself what was really the point of killing what seemed to be a perfectly good rotary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtkinney Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 There is a video online of a 1992 (I believe) Mazda RX-7 that had over 100k miles on it, the guys were going to do an engine swap so they decided to see how long it could go wide open, it lasted I think something like 32 minutes at 9k rpm, pretty impressive. Then again the Wankel Rotary design is a lot different then typical piston/cylinder. Anyway after watching the whole video out of bordom, I was kinda thinking to myself what was really the point of killing what seemed to be a perfectly good rotary. You're right RTTR, the rotary engine is a different animal. Most of the earlier rotaries (70's vintage and maybe later) had a thermal limit not an rpm limit. The aluminum cases would eventually distort and the rotor wear would eat them up. The '74 rotary engine pickup that my wife owned when I met her had a buzzer in the tach as a high RPM warning, but the thing would just keep spinning faster and faster. It had no torque at low RPM, but once it was spinning, look-out. It also had a radiator larger than the one in my Suburban. Suzuki put rotaries in a couple of motorcycles, but I've only seen pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 A little bit off the subject, but related......... Some years ago a biker bar in Daytona (Pub 44) decided that they'd take a jap bike, drain all the oil out of it, crank it up, pin the throttle WFO, and let it granade itself in what surely would be a matter of a couple minutes - if that. This was done of course to delight the masses of Harley folks and to generate publicity. Oh - and afterward Pub 44 would let ya take a sledge hammer to the bike for $2 a whack or summat. Well, the time comes for the Japanese Bike Bash (BTW, this still goes on today and I know they've been doing it for at least 21 years. It's a pretty cool event. Maybe not as entertaining as the cole slaw wrestling, but that's another story). They drain the oil, put a tank of gas in it, start the thing, pin the throttle, and the little jap engine goes wwwWWWWWWHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA................. And it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, and it goes, ...................................... I mean the thing is running for like over 15 minutes. By now the crowd is getting pretty pissed off that some POS Jap bike can run like that with no oil. Eventually it failed but only after it damn near ran outta gas. Now, I think they put in only a pint of gas. And yes, they still sell whacks with a sledge hammer. Pretty crazy. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I've had the issue for awhile and finally got around to reading the article. Fascinating the lengths Honda went through with that engine. Every part engineered to serve a specific purpose while weighing as little as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 "Some years ago a biker bar in Daytona (Pub 44) decided that they'd take a jap bike, drain all the oil out of it, crank it up, pin the throttle WFO, and let it granade itself in what surely would be a matter of a couple minutes - if that. This was done of course to delight the masses of Harley folks and to generate publicity." Ha! They should try that with a Harley - they wouldn't even need to drain the oil or red line it for the thing to start coughing blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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