electrical wiring - under carpet?

[damonrpayne]

Can you get thin electrical wire (and is it safe) that you can run under carpet?

[Tom Adams]

I'm sure you can, but I wouldn't do it. Unless you're talking about some short run of like maybe 3 feet.

Tom

[PrestonTom]

Careful.

It is not uncommon for folks to run a light gauge extension cord under the carpet. No problem until some plugs something in that draws a good current (or the cord has been damaged by traffic walking over it). This is a common cause of home fires.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[damonrpayne]

Yeah that's what I'm worried about is safety. I want to turn about 10 feet of cord under carpet to power some rope lights and possibly electric recliners in the middle of the room. I don't want to lose any of my ceiling height by doing a sub-floor. This is very much not a big deal so if there's not a safe way to do it, so be it.

[Malcolm]

Good move. Don't do it.

[LarryC]

Can you run it down into the basement (or start it in the basement) and up again through, uh, a hole in your floor, assuming this is main floor? I'm sure you don't want to pay an electrician for further architorture! No, I wouldn't run it directly under the carpet. There are those rubber runners with a shallow tent or inverted-V cross-section that I think are meant for running temporary cords in meeting places, do folks think that would that work?

[damonrpayne]

This is in the basement, thus my reference to not wanting to install any flooring on top of the concrete.

[Wrench722]

Check this out.Parts Express: TAPERWIRE 16 GA 16' 2 COND

[DrWho]

Try seeing if your builder (or perhaps another contractor in your case)

might be willing to cut a groove into your concrete and put some

conduit under the carpet. I wouldn't run any kind of permanent power

cable without some form of protection.

Another thing you might consider would be to use a normal extension

cord and just put a matching throw rug over the top for aesthetics and

traffic flow.

[damonrpayne]

LOL, I want nothing more to do with this builder than I have to. I will think about the throw rug notion, I'd be more comfortable with that, just in case I sell this house some day.

[PrestonTom]

"Another thing you might consider would be to use a normal extension cord and just put a matching throw rug over the top for aesthetics and traffic flow."

Not really a good suggestion.

Light weight extension cords (so it won't be a trip hazzard) under the carpet are not designed to take the traffic, abrasion, weight etc. This would be compounded since you would not see the wear & tear. Home fires are a very real danger. Although you may remember the fact there is a cord under the carpet, others will not.

-Tom

[DrWho]

Wear and tear does not happen instantly and because it is not a permanent installation it can easily and cheaply be replaced when it starts to show warning signs. Keep in mind that you would have to wear through the thick rubber outer jacket, braided inner jacket, and then the insulation around both of the two wires. Often times there is also a physical barrier between the wires on the inside (basically a plastic wall). All of this must wear out before the mere possibility of a spark occuring. Extension cords were engineered to be walked on.

All that to say, there will be warning signs far before it starts becoming an issue...and there is low probability that it would ever become an issue in the first place. Just think of all the professional/commerical scenarios where extension cords are run under rugs in high traffic areas (construction sites, portable live sound, furniture stores, etc etc...).

The point of the throw rug is to get rid of the tripping hazard. The point of not putting it under the floor is to keep the cable easily visible and maintanable in the off chance that the highly improbable occurs.

And I will just merely state that even a blow torch isn't sufficient enough to light a fire-resistant carpet on fire. I don't know about Wisconsin or Damon's builders, but new homes in Illinois are required to install the fire-resistant type.

Think about it...how is downward pressure going to damage a cable? The problem in older homes was the dryrotting of the insulation (and the fact that electrical lines were often stapled to untreated wood/carpet).

And if you're still worried, just throw a small piece of conduit on the floor and then throw the rug over that. You're talking maybe a 1/8" increase in the height. But there is no point in overthinking the issue....you are more likely to die walking down the stairs or driving down the road.

Anyways, not trying to argue...just defending a point.

[Malcolm]

Nice argument, but it is still a stupid thing to do.

[jacksonbart]

I would not do it, but then again I try and eat right, don't smoke and don't play with metals rods out in lightening storms. Could get exciting if the next owner decided to take up the carpet with the typical razor blade.

[hwatkins]

Time for a contra opinion here - there is flat wire made for just the situation you are talking about - a concrete base that will be covered in carpet. It is a solution folks have put in for me in numerous office building renovations. It lays reasonably flat, is covered by a flat piece of metal sheathed in a rubber compound (very thin, durable stuff) and taped over.

The catch? - well, it may cost about the same as cutting into the concrete and laying conduit. It is something used often in leasehold space where not futzing with the concrete is a good thing.

[westcott]

I had a channel cut in the concrete on my installation. After seeing how it was done when I paid a concrete engineer, you could do it yourself for the cost of a diamond blade on a circular saw and a a hammer drill. I had 40' of channel cut for US$500.00.

I went ahead and floated and isolated the floor at the same time. Makes for a clean installation.

Good Luck!

"His and Her Room"

[Tom Adams]

Wear and tear does not happen instantly and because it is not a permanent installation it can easily and cheaply be replaced when it starts to show warning signs. Keep in mind that you would have to wear through the thick rubber outer jacket, braided inner jacket, and then the insulation around both of the two wires. Often times there is also a physical barrier between the wires on the inside (basically a plastic wall). All of this must wear out before the mere possibility of a spark occuring. Extension cords were engineered to be walked on.

All that to say, there will be warning signs far before it starts becoming an issue...and there is low probability that it would ever become an issue in the first place. Just think of all the professional/commerical scenarios where extension cords are run under rugs in high traffic areas (construction sites, portable live sound, furniture stores, etc etc...).

The point of the throw rug is to get rid of the tripping hazard. The point of not putting it under the floor is to keep the cable easily visible and maintanable in the off chance that the highly improbable occurs.

And I will just merely state that even a blow torch isn't sufficient enough to light a fire-resistant carpet on fire. I don't know about Wisconsin or Damon's builders, but new homes in Illinois are required to install the fire-resistant type.

Think about it...how is downward pressure going to damage a cable? The problem in older homes was the dryrotting of the insulation (and the fact that electrical lines were often stapled to untreated wood/carpet).

And if you're still worried, just throw a small piece of conduit on the floor and then throw the rug over that. You're talking maybe a 1/8" increase in the height. But there is no point in overthinking the issue....you are more likely to die walking down the stairs or driving down the road.

Anyways, not trying to argue...just defending a point.

DrWho - you know I respect you, but you're a bit off-base here. Many, many, many house fires are started by wires under rugs. Go to Underwriters Laboratories and do the research. It is a big no-no. You don't own a home right? So you've never seen a homeowners policy and read all the fine print right? Well here's the reality.....'ol Damon thinks that it's perfectly safe because of all the things you cite. Damon's house (God forbid) catches on fire and 'lo & behold he's the anomaly of a wire that's under a rug starting the fire. Guess what? Little to no pay-out because the insurance company will cite culpability on the part of Damon. And this isn't some made up scenario - it happens - a lot. Despite what your analytical mind may think, it happens. Maybe you're that kind of risk taker. I'm not. Especially with 50 years worth of things that can't be replaced. Sorry for the lecture, but I can't see having my house go up in smoke over a $3 lamp cord.

Tom

[DrWho]

You talking wires under carpet or wires under throw rugs? There is a

big difference. (like the vapor barrier and lining stuff and a wood

subfloor versus concrete).

I don't see how a rug is any different from duct tape over a

cable...and it's totally within OSHA regs to tape down cables...in

fact, it is even required in high traffic areas. And though it's been a

while since I've read it, I swear rugs were suggested as an alternative

as long as the rug isn't permanently fixed (ie, can be easily moved).

I prefer to not reference personal experience, but this is something

I've been doing for years...sure, cables wear out and need to be

replaced, but that's easy to do in this situation.

Like I said, I'm not trying to argue and you guys make good points too.

And if in fact I'm crazy, I would love to see some good data to smack

me over the head with []

[formica]

Wire (without a proper shield) under a carpet is never recommended,

even under a throw rug. It's a compound hazard due to the

friction, flamable materials, and the fact it's hidden from

sight.

Time for a contra opinion here - there is flat

wire made for just the situation you are talking about - a concrete

base that will be covered in carpet. It is a solution folks have

put in for me in numerous office building renovations. It lays

reasonably flat, is covered by a flat piece of metal sheathed in a

rubber compound (very thin, durable stuff) and taped over.

I've seen this stuff, and could be a solution as it's UL rated but...

pricey. OTOH, I wouldn't recommend using any wire under a

carpet that isn't rated for that use.

ROb

[ScorpsFan]

Gotta agree, placing wire, (romex, extension cords) under carpet can be a dangerous thing. BTW rope lights (like the Xmas ones at the discount store) can also be a danger. I have seen a few house fires where these were just placed into a tray ceiling and overheated when left on too long. Make sure yours are appropriately rated and installed. Here's a website with some good info, if you haven't already researched this part of your plan: www.centsibleholidaylighting.com/ropelightFAQs.htm Best of Luck!