Back to Vinyl!

[efzauner]

It has been years since I have not had a dedicated audio setup. What with kids 3,7 and 8, the family room with TV full of toys, the planned HT room still years away. So tonight I said to hell with waiting and made some room in the living room curio cabinet for my old gear: Pioneer integrated amp, Dual 510 TT, with Shure M95. Hooked them up to a pair of nicely finished Heresy's I got a few years ago (My 30 year old Advent's are in the home gym), warmed up some milk and honey, adjusted the tonearm balance, dialed in 1.5g of downforce and anti skating, slapped on Genesis Trick of the Tail and sat down for some listening pleasure I have not heard in a couple of decades.

Wow, It was well worth the wait. In a world of digital everything, the old groves still works fine! Can't wait till tomorrow night to pull out another moldie oldie LP! Maybe some Classical! Odd how I, like many, put away our LPs in 1984 when the CDs came out (still have my first CD player!) only to return to our first love as we get older!

I was surprised that the 30 year old TT belt was still fine, everything worked!

[Daddy Dee]

Good story. It's good to get the tunes back in the air, eh? Thanks for posting.

[edwinr]

There's been a lot of adverse comments about vinyl compared to digital. But the proof of the pudding is in the listening. I love the sound of my records. I'm glad I didn't offload them like lots of others when CD came in.

[whell]

I was surprised that the 30 year old TT belt was still fine, everything worked!

Me too. I owned that exact TT, and bought it used. Sounded OK, but I decided to be proactive and replace the belt. It sounded pretty good before, but swapping out the belt made a noticable difference. Possibly the speed was slightly off with the old belt.

[Mallette]

Well, you've joined a rare group. Not just vinyl lovers, but those who care about source material in general. Strange as it may seem, the vast majority of the denizens of these pages seem to be more interested in power conditioners, speaker cables, crossover tweaks, etc. than in the source material.

I'll leave out the last word to avoid offense, but IMHO IT"S ABOUT THE SOURCE MATERIAL..."

Like you, but farther back (about 1996) I dusted off my abandoned TT and suddenly found I'd been starving to death musically on a diet of CD's. It set me off on a journey to find out what went wrong that led me first to Klipschorns, to vinyl to digital transfers, to digital audio workstation design, and finally to location and studio recording.

I've found that only a tiny fraction of the available source material is anywhere near ready for the systems we've assembled. Agonizing over interconnects is so futile (again, IMHO) when you achieve a slightly more realistic image of bacon frying or rain falling when listening to recorded applause.

While I remain honestly impressed at the level of ear training many of our brothers have achieved to be able to spot a given capacitor or speaker cable in a system I'd be more impressed if they could spot a quality recording on a car CD player.

Like John, we cry in the wilderness...

Dave

[maxg]

I was about 4 years after Dave in my re-discovery of vinyl. Sadly I had given away virtually all my disks in favour of CD's first and then later SACD's.

Still - records can be found in abundance for near pennies - and my collection is over 1000 disks now - probably well over.

Course - things start to get expensive when you decide to drift away from that Dual into a newer table - but there is time for that yet I think....

[jacksonbart]

I prefer connelly leather and wilton carpets.

[efzauner]

I don't want to give anyone the impression that I worship vinyl. I think our hobby is comparable to cars: that 60's Mustang or MG or Porsche will be blown away by modern sports cars but no one criticises the owners for loving their old cars. They have character all their own and are worthy of collecting. Same thing for old audio gear. My young kids where amazed when they first saw the real thing: Up till now they only saw records on cartoons! Must confess: one of the reasons I got the TT going again was wanting to listen to my old collections again. I never did replace my LPs by CDs. Except for a few, my CD and LP collection do not overlap.

My next step is to get the 50 year old Heathkit tube amp and preamp going again and then restoring an old Lenco L70 turntable with 78 sytlus to be able to play some old 78s my parents have. That preamp has many phono equalization settings that I have not seen on others. I have been reading some of the Lenco and Thorens websites and it is odd that some people swear by the old Idler drive turntables with the heavy tonearms. I recall the vast reduction in rumble, wow and flutter when belt drive turntables where introduced together with low mass and high compliance cartrigdes in the early 70s. Seems like our nostalgia makes us forget the many technical advances that where made.

Kinda feels neet to know the almost lost art of setting up a turntable and cartridge! The TT looks out of place now, at least it is with old company.

Music is all about the overall pleasureable experience, and gets lost when we put too much emphasis on the last fraction of a dB of frequency response, noise, etc. Music is art, and needs to be enjoyed as such. Why discard an old recording of reputable conductors, symphonies or other genres because they are on old media. We do not cast away great films because they are in 4x3 B&W, or not in the latest surround format. So why throw away the old records that contain marvelous musical history that spanned many many decades?

[Mallette]

"Music is all about the overall pleasureable experience, and gets lost when we put too much emphasis on the last fraction of a dB of frequency response, noise, etc. Music is art, and needs to be enjoyed as such. Why discard an old recording of reputable conductors, symphonies or other genres because they are on old media. We do not cast away great films because they are in 4x3 B&W, or not in the latest surround format. So why throw away the old records that contain marvelous musical history that spanned many many decades?"

U-rah!

So rare to hear that stated in these pages. Glad you don't worship vinyl...aside from being a violation of the 1rst commandment, a very temporal being at best. I've heard 78's that could best the vast majority of CD's ever recorded, and CD's that provide a detail and presence no 78 ever could. It is about the source...some recordist who who finds the most direct path with whatever they have to work with from the artist, instrument, space, and moment to eternity.

My equipment gets my attention the moment I HEAR it. I still say the most horrific audiophile put down that can be uttered is "Them's some AWESOME sounding LOUDSPEAKERS." To the extent you are hearing loudspeakers as opposed to music, they suck, and if they are still present when you close your eyes, they suck.

As with all equipment. I do not want great sounding amplifiers, cables, loudspeakers, or turntables. I want equipment that disappears and and recreates an auditory recreation of a moment in space and time that is limited only by the information saved and stored by an unknown and unsung hero who really cared.

Anyone who slams vinyl, or shellac, or tape, or digital, or anything capable of freezing a moment of space and time when beauty held sway in the air for a few minutes needs a check up from the neck up.

Dave

[coltrane]

I am in the same boat.

I bought a nice used Thorens table on a whim and a good price. I started of with about 50 records and 8 months later I have about 1700. I sold off many of my cds (Istill have about 700) and find that I am listening to mostly vinyl these days. I find it much warmer and non fatigueing. I have a tubed cd player and tube amp which helps with the digital stuff but it lacks the warmth of vinyl.

my 2 cents.

Coltrane

[Wardsweb]

Nice to hear your audio journey has taken a side road back to an

earlier desitination. Vinyl has it's own joy and misery, but like any

media, the enjoyment of the music is what counts. So whatever level of

your endeavor, it's all good. Remember there are many roads to

audio nirvana and the best part is the journey. Enjoy the ride.

[Parrot]

some recordist who finds the most direct path

an auditory recreation of a moment in space and time that is limited only by the information saved and stored by an unknown and unsung hero who really cared.

Dave,

Your recording engineer bias is showing in these two excerpts. Every step in the chain is important. Let's hear it for the unsung hero who drives the UPS truck to BestBuy with CD packages!

Still, the most important thing is whether the piece being performed is worth hearing. The greatest performers can't make a boring piece of music any better than what the composer wrote (with the exception of mindless free-for-all horn-blowing jam sessions). And one can have the most perfect recording in the world, but if it is a perfect recording of a bad performance or of a bad piece, why would anyone want to listen to it?

I'm sure we'll agree that the best situation is when composition, performance, and recording quality are all first-rate.

[Mallette]

some recordist who finds the most direct path

an auditory recreation of a moment in space and time that is limited only by the information saved and stored by an unknown and unsung hero who really cared.

Dave,

Your recording engineer bias is showing in these two excerpts. Every step in the chain is important. Let's hear it for the unsung hero who drives the UPS truck to BestBuy with CD packages!

Still, the most important thing is whether the piece being performed is worth hearing. The greatest performers can't make a boring piece of music any better than what the composer wrote (with the exception of mindless free-for-all horn-blowing jam sessions). And one can have the most perfect recording in the world, but if it is a perfect recording of a bad performance or of a bad piece, why would anyone want to listen to it?

I'm sure we'll agree that the best situation is when composition, performance, and recording quality are all first-rate.

Paul:

I resemble that remark and agree with everything you said. However, in the hierarchy I must insist that no system can sound any better than the source material it is fed. Therefore, I find it odd that "audiophiles" spend so little time examining and understanding the issues of source material and so much time and money on the reproduction chain.

No matter what type of system I am listening to it is the qualities or lack thereof of the source material that immediately stands out. Systems are like windows. Regardless of the qualities of the glass, you can tell whether that which lies beyond is a masterpiece or not.

Accurate systems (usually horn based) are derided by the popular and $tereophile-type press as "clinical" and "not musical." In my opinion, that's because so much of the material on the market is crap and an accurate system is unmerciful.

Dave

[pauln]

I was fortunate to be working in a hifi shop in the very early 80's when the CD format appeared. I got to hear them on good amps and big Klipsch. My first impression was that they sounded horrible and so I stuck to records and only bought a couple of CD in the last 25 years for playing in the car. Although the 'CD sound' is thought to have improved over the years, I'm glad my first impression kept me away from them - I never considered dumping my records and am so glad I did not.

[Mallette]

Pauln:

Moving some data around my Houston apartment today I stumbled across a drive with a 24/88.2 transfer I'd done a few years ago of Dark Side of the Moon and lost in the several terabytes of data I have. Having the Mobile Fidelity CD on another drive allowed me to compare. Those who have not heard the LP are screwed. Even though I made the transfer from my original copy complete with seed burns and wear the sound is not even close, and we are talking digital to digital here, not LP to CD.

It's about the SOURCE. GIGO.

Dave

[NMR Guy]

The only issue for me is my ability to purchase the vast array of music I enjoy. Bottom line, I have so few records, (Vinyl) that I now HAVE to find the best CD player I can afford.

I have four two channel systems and I do listen to music everyday. I have been using Toshiba's 3950, 3960, and 3590 as well as my tried and true Rega Planet,.....that just gave up the ghost! (Very sad about it!)

I'm looking at a Rega Apollo because I have pretty good luck with my original Planet. But I can only justify about a grand for a new player,...and I'd sure like to find something for less money that will give me as good a quality as possible.

I find GREAT deals on some higher end turntables,...but I can't turn back and try to rebuild the vast collection of music I enjoy. (I have between four and five hundred CD's,...and I listen to them all in various rotations)

Any suggestions on a new CD player for under a grand?

Thanks guys!

[Mallette]

OK, I note you are from Portland. Not the biggest town in the country but not exactly Stix either. With fine LP's still going for from 50 cents to 5 bucks or so there is no cheaper way to build a collection of music. I purchase at least a 100 per year and I have no time to really shop. My wife comes home occasionally with a boxful purchased at lunch for 30 bucks or so and we sort out trash or treasure at our leisure. Amazing what you find in such places...Italian 180 gram pressings of Hendrix (3.00) and more.

However, if you really must stay the CD course, drop a bit less than 400.00 for a Card Deluxe, stick it in a cast off computer and enjoy CD's sounding more like the 10k player spread.

...and thats all I got to say about that.

Dave