Mike Lindsey Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Yep... the 511B's sound pretty darn good with the K55-M driver and some ALK networks. Yes indeedy... Mike Mike, So you're still running with the K-55 then? What crossover point are you using? What did they do to the sound for you over the K-400? Charles chops, The crossover to the tweeter is 6000hz and to the woofer at 400hz I believe. As for the sound? Night and day over the K-400. Cleaner, clearer, more transparent (find the best word for you with wider dispersion and better soundstage. The fact the horn sits a foot higher also raises the soundstage a couple of feet up the back wall. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 I have not two, but THREE Altec 511B horns on their way to me as well as three of those Selenium adapters. Fun times are just around the corner! [<)] Glad to hear my contact worked out for you. He was a nice guy and easy to deal with. I have been working like a dog lately 14+ hour days for a month now, lots of weekends. So my 511b project lost steam. Keep me posted on yours. All I have is the horns. Since I installed my BobC tweets in my khorns I have my old K77 tweets just hanging around. I think I will build a replacement top section for my khorns with the 511s and try all the tweeter configurations I can. What would be really nice is to come up with a 2nd set of midrange drivers. Then I could quite easily and quickly swap between my standard top section and my 511/BobC set for comparison sake. rplace, your contact Tim definately worked out. In fact, he just sent me another email this morning saying that they were shipped off via FedEx and should be here Monday. Now only if Parts Express can get those adapters here on time. That would be great. And yes, I'll keep you along with everyone else up to date. As for your project, when you can, you should get a couple of those Atlas drivers from Bob so you can run both squawkers when you want, like you said. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Yep... the 511B's sound pretty darn good with the K55-M driver and some ALK networks. Yes indeedy... Mike Mike, So you're still running with the K-55 then? What crossover point are you using? What did they do to the sound for you over the K-400? Charles chops, The crossover to the tweeter is 6000hz and to the woofer at 400hz I believe. As for the sound? Night and day over the K-400. Cleaner, clearer, more transparent (find the best word for you with wider dispersion and better soundstage. The fact the horn sits a foot higher also raises the soundstage a couple of feet up the back wall. Mike Mike, So I take it you'r squawker crossover is at 400Hz also. I too noticed the higher soundstage when I moved everything to the top hat as well. It made a big difference. I'm looking forward to getting these horns, but I just hate having to wait. Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Chops, Have you considered upgrading the drivers? After all the horn is really a dispersion control device that also manages the column of air in front of the driver BUT the driver seems to me to contribute more to the final sound. Many who have gone to 511s used altec drivers and I suspect that was the prime contributing factor to better sound with the horn itself playing a secondary role. just my opinion ya'know. 288s or 299s should do it...tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 By going to the Altec drivers means a network change if I'm not mistaken, and I had already purchased the ALK universals. The 511B sounds markedly improved over the K-400 using the standard K55. Trust me on this one... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Chops, Have you considered upgrading the drivers? After all the horn is really a dispersion control device that also manages the column of air in front of the driver BUT the driver seems to me to contribute more to the final sound. Many who have gone to 511s used altec drivers and I suspect that was the prime contributing factor to better sound with the horn itself playing a secondary role. just my opinion ya'know. 288s or 299s should do it...tony Tony, I've been looking, but haven't done any real research yet on what to get. I'm not 100% sure what drivers are best suited for the 511B's and music reproduction. And there are so many; 288, 299, 291, 802, 902, etc, etc... I guess I might have to browse around in the Lansing forum and see what people are using. If I do decide one switching out the K-55V at some point, I would want a driver that can safely handle a 400Hz crossover point. And eventhough some of those Altec drivers can go all the way up to 20kHz, I will still want to probably roll it off around the 4500Hz mark and use Bob's CT125 for the rest. I don't know for sure though. Also, the other deciding factor on driver upgrades is $$$. Some of those driver are not cheap. Plus, I think I have read somewhere that some people use JBL drivers or other brands. Who knows?! I don't think I'm going to worry about the drivers right now. Heck, I don't even have the horns yet! [] Stop trying to spend my money Tony!!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 By going to the Altec drivers means a network change if I'm not mistaken, and I had already purchased the ALK universals. The 511B sounds markedly improved over the K-400 using the standard K55. Trust me on this one... Mike Another good point, and another expense. I'm assuming that if I were to go with different drivers, I'd have to use 16 ohm ones to match up with the Type CS II network, or at least have the diaphrams replaced with 16 ohm versions. But even then, I'm sured I'd have to do something if the sensitivity didn't match up with the rest of my drivers. Mike, I noticed in your old thread about the 511s when Q-Man was over helping you get them all wired up and such, that he was holding what looked like a 288-16k driver. I take it you never tried that driver in your setup? Also, do the 511B horns help with that little bit of K-55 "honk"? Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 "And there are so many; 288, 299, 291, 802, 902, etc, etc... I guess I might have to browse around in the Lansing forum and see what people are using." 288,299,291 are all large format drivers. They won't fit on a 511B, you would need 511E horns or the other various large format horns Altec made. That leaves the small format 80x and 90x series. 902s are very nice sounding drivers and they will go all the way to 20kHz. Nice thing of the 90x series over the 80x is the ferrite magnets... no worries about having to have the magnets recharged. They also tend to be cheaper then the 80x series. It would be a shame to cross one of them over at 4500. If you were going to stay three way I'd go the other way... push the crossover higher then 6kHz not lower. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 "They won't fit on a 511B, you would need 511E horns or the other various large format horns Altec made." Thanks Shawn, that solves that problem. LOL Just out of curiousity, what other drivers go well with the 511B horn that would also do well in a home environment? I did notice over on Altec's site about the new A7, that they rate the 902-8T driver all the way up to 22kHz, but they also have it crossed over at 900Hz, way higher than the K-33 can go. Wouldn't it be stretching it a bit to ask it to run from 400Hz all the way up? I ask this now, but have just read on the Altec Lansing User's Board that some people have been using the 902 all the way down to a 360Hz crossover point without problems. This one in particular was crossing the 902 over at 24dB per octave. How much information is going to my K-55V being crossed over at 400Hz @ 6dB per octave? Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 "what other drivers go well with the 511B horn that would also do well in a home environment?" I haven't tried others so I can't really give much in the way of a recommendation there. The k55 does work on them too with the adapter and I too far prefered the 511B compared to the K400. Great Plains Audio sells Altec small format clones too.. .they are who build the drivers for the new A7. "Wouldn't it be stretching it a bit to ask it to run from 400Hz all the way up?" Altec small format drivers ran in smaller movie houses from 500hz and all the way up many hours each day every day of the week. I ran mine first order with the ALK Universal crossovers for awhile before moving to the ES600Ts and converting to two ways. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 BTW... if you want to try out the Altec large format drivers here is a nice compact K600ish sized horn for the large format drivers.... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 That's not a horn..... That's a horn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 sfogg, is that your system?! I think I just messed myself!!!! [] [] [] [] [] [] Umm.... caugh, caugh... [:$] 1) Anyway, isn't that "horn" in the first pic actually the throat/adapter for a large horn? 2) Is that huge a$$ horn one of those Manta Ray horns? 3) And what's with the foam blocks in that 1005B? 4) Just how many Altec goodies do you have laying around anyway?! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 "1) Anyway, isn't that "horn" in the first pic actually the throat/adapter for a large horn?" Yes. "2) Is that huge a$$ horn one of those Manta Ray horns? " Yup, a MR94. The throat/adapter is the adapter for this horn. Just got it today so I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. I haven't been able to find out much info on the MR94 yet. I think it is one of the first series of MR horns as it is made of metal with Aquaplas on it. I thought most of the MR series were fiberglass. The mouth on this thing is literally larger then the mouth of the LaScala. Crazy huge horn... wouldn't even fit my room/system without serious changes but it was cheap and I was curious. I need to order a diaphragm from Great Plains to try it out though. If nothing else I bet I can rid my yard of Mosquitos.... "3) And what's with the foam blocks in that 1005B?" 805Bs. Something I tried based on what Earl Geddes has been doing with his Summa loudspeaker in an attempt to reduce diffraction/reflection artifacts in a horn. He basically fills his horn with a very open cell foam. The idea being that the direct sound from the horn will pass straight through the foam and only be mildly attenuated. The diffractions/reflections at the mount will reflect back down the horn, pass through the foam again and be attenuated a little more, hit the driver, bounce back out the horn again and again pass through the foam another time being further attenuated. If the diffractions/reflection cause further diffractions/reflections the foam reduces those too. I didn't have the very open cell foam he uses so I used a small square of 1" acoustic foam that I already had in a couple of cells and went back and forth comparing it. It seemed to make the sound a little more refined (less PA quality) so I ended up putting the foam in all of the cells and liked the result. I took it a step further for the L/R speakers. I only needed 60 degrees of coverage on them (the outer cells were mainly just giving wall bounce) so I stuffed those cells to reduce their output further to cut down on wall bounce. "4) Just how many Altec goodies do you have laying around anyway?!" Not as much as some but more then I probably should have. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Chops, Have you considered upgrading the drivers? After all the horn is really a dispersion control device that also manages the column of air in front of the driver BUT the driver seems to me to contribute more to the final sound. Many who have gone to 511s used altec drivers and I suspect that was the prime contributing factor to better sound with the horn itself playing a secondary role. just my opinion ya'know. 288s or 299s should do it...tony Chops, I can see that you "got it bad" like I did. Shawn has always been on the money as far as I am concerned. The 902 driver on the 511b, has been kicking my a** for several years (crossed at 400hz, first order!) The braced CW bin, 511/902 combo will deliever a pleasing 110-121db peak in my room. They perform very well crossed at 400hz. Don't let the spec's fool you. They are for Pro use and abuse. The upper-mids are just outstanding in clarity. BUT, I still require a tweeter. (in first order, in my room and with my stuff, mind you) Regards, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Shawn, thanks for all the great info and answers! And yes Terry, you guys are a bad influence on me! LOL Just ask anyone who knows me and they'll all tell you that I am a great one for major overkill. I can see it now, a year or so down the road, you guys (caugh-Shawn! [:|]) are going to have me looking for several of those MR94 horns for my system! I'm most likely going to get a pair of the 902 drivers in the not so distant future, but which ones? One eBay I've seen 8T and 8B versions? What's the difference between these two? I know the 8T is what comes on the new A7s. And when the time comes that I do get 902's, I'm going to need some input on modding the Type CS II networks for that driver. But that's a whole other thread on its own. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Earl Geddes is coool. Terry, I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how we get away with using first order networks with the drivers and horns we're using, I mean, it shouldn't work, but it does. We're sitting right at cut-off, and running at or below the -3dB points at the lower end of the driver's response. I mean, riding right on the edge, and everything I've read seems to indicate the driver shouldn't be loading properly. About a month ago I decided to see if it was possible to get the diaphragms to clack, and even using the most brutal material I have on hand I couldn't make it happen. Now, my room is smallish, and I'm only running 60 watts in push-pull -- but man was is smoking loud. I realize we have these drivers padded down, but it doesn't seem to me it should work without a good deal of distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Charles - contact Bill at www.greatplainsaudio.com He has all of the original Altec tooling, and if I were to do it I would go new. I believe they are $200 each. I think you should take advantage of the fact that you have a low end that goes up a bit. It's not like you have the same limitation imposed on a Klipschorn user, that has no choice but to crossover at 400 or 450. Why not bump it up a bit, stretch the midrange driver out to 8 or 9kHz, and then let the tweeter add the sparkle. You'd amazed at how smooth the overall sound gets when you get a driver that can reach out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Shawn, I think you've finally lost your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 "I'm most likely going to get a pair of the 902 drivers in the not so distant future, but which ones? One eBay I've seen 8T and 8B versions? What's the difference between these two? I know the 8T is what comes on the new A7s." The differences are really in the diaphragms I believe. Mine are 902-8Bs but they have a rare diaphragm which is closer to a 902-8A diaphragm. For hi-fi you want the aluminum diaphragms. Consider what Dean suggests about buying new carefully. You will spend $150-$200 for used Altecs. If they need diaphragms that is going to be another $160ish for the pair from Great Plains. For about $400 you can have brand new drivers with brand new diaphragms from Great Plains. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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