Guest " " Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 The forum needs a matrix like the one Al's web site has. Al has a matrix that list upgrade combinations and indicate good, better, best. Our version might be Something like 0 to 1000 bucks on the left going up, and restoration to modification across the top from right to left. So if someone says I want to restore to original specs but only spend 250, the graph will plot a point and notations will explain what the point means. All possible combinations of plots on the graph are valid for one reason or another. Seems like when ever someone asks for advice...the forum goes from restoration to modifcations to even tri-amping with-in a few replies ot the intial post. Sure info for long range planning is helpful....no sense doing a AA network restoration and then turn right around and go for some extreme slope networks. But we need to work on presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Michael, I didn't see anyone trying to sell anyone anything, though I did see recommendations to spend money on bringing the networks up to date. My last posts were directed at Bill, who has developed a real knack for grating on my nerves -- and I thought he might enjoy the DQ networks. Hey Bill, can I rebuild your DQ networks for ya -- I could use the money -- I haven't fed my kids in three days.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I knew I'd get jumped on for my opinion. Thanks. Michael is absolutely correct, in my opinion. Our colleagues do offer good products & services, so I am not trying to knock anything. However, this lucky guy now has some of the better premier speakers ever built. By all means, take your time and enjoy them. They don't do everything, but there are some things they do very, very well. Soak it all in. If the caps are old & you are worried about a resistance build up in series with the transducers, then by all means go ahead and get some Solen caps. On my AA crosovers this cost me about 20 bucks and an 1-2 hours labor. It is a very straight forward process and brings the cabinets to an "original" level. I think the original level is not bad and I have not done anything that will preclude more exotic measures later on. That is not a bad $20 investment. The investment is small. If later on you feel that a different topology is better (it will change things) or if expensive caps are called for (some folks swear by this) then by all means go ahead (you are only out the original $20). You can always do the other stuff later. Refreshing the caps will give a discernable improvement. My suggestion, like Michael's, is to listen, listen, listen. If you need to tweak, start out with some experimentation on speaker location (always snug in the corners & use pipe foam if necessary). Try relocating your chair (there is a sweet spot). Why not add an area rug on the floor (or an extra pad). These suggesstions are inexpensive and will have an impact. But most importantly listen,listen, listen (and enjoy)! Congratulations, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Michael, BECAUSE THEY ASKED! DM I was going to say the same thing Dana, but didn't want to be accused of another "personal attack". LOL Anyway.... Everybody here so far has given excellent advice from all directions. I'd say definately get the networks recapped at least if nothing else. You never know, depending on your age, the condition of your hearing and musical preferences, you may think the K77 tweeters provide enough sparkle and openness with the new caps installed. However, if you do desire a little extra sparkle, I highly recommend going with BEC's CT125 "drop-in' replacement tweeters. To me, they have the same sonic signature as the K77s, just that they extend to 20kHz. Also, if you like playing your music rather loud, and have the CT125s installed, I would also recommend rolling off the top end of the squawker to about 4500Hz or so to help eliminate that "honk" at higher volumes. I am not familiar with the Khorn network design, so it may already have something similar to this done from the factory. At any rate, just sit back and enjoy your speakers for a little while before doing any major changes. Like others have said, you may like the stock sound just fine. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Michael, I didn't see anyone trying to sell anyone anything, though I did see recommendations to spend money on bringing the networks up to date. LOL I guess it's all a matter of perspective. My last posts were directed at Bill, who has developed a real knack for grating on my nerves -- and I thought he might enjoy the DQ networks. Hey Bill, can I rebuild your DQ networks for ya -- I could use the money -- I haven't fed my kids in three days.! Only if we can find some Beryllium tweeters. [] I'm dying for a killer system. But seriously........... There seems to (many times) be a rush to solutions that nobody has actually asked for. These 'solutions' are only a reflection of personal biases and experiences of the respondents and don't actually reply to the question at hand. My tri-amping response was in this category. Michael's response was valid and on point. Some chose to ackowledge it. And some didn't. Which just reflects the spectrum of human nature. I know I'm only here for the money........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 30+ year-old speakers sound just fine? Maybe if they were kept away from oxygen for all that time! Nosiree, I can't buy into that myth - but you suit yourself... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I know I'm only here for the money... I was here long before I was building networks for people, and I'll be here long after. I started doing this after experiencing the difference with my own speakers -- it started with a desire to share the results. If someone asks for a suggestion regarding a preamp, amp, CD player -- whatever -- and you make a recommendation -- you're basically recommending which way their money should go. So, you're O.K. with someone recommending that one send their money to Sony, Pioneer, Crown, etc. -- but if someone recommends that a person get their speakers back to factory spec or to the highest level possible using services offered here -- you have issue? No one here is shilling -- people recommend us because they've personally experienced the difference it can make. If it didn't make a positive difference and offer a higher level of enjoyment in their listening -- we all would have gone out of business a long time ago. This forum offers killer services, and not just with networks -- but tube gear too. Craig of NOSvalves started here, and after 25 years of being dormant in the business -- Mark Deneen came out of retirement to start Juicymusic Audio. The fact is, a pair of Klipsch loudspeakers with new networks provided by either Al, Bob, Chris or myself -- and pushed along by Craig's and/or Mark's stuff -- is some of the best sound money can buy -- at any price. Get the speakers right first. 30 year old motor runs and mylars belong in the trash bin -- the last set I worked on had oil leaking all over the boards. Telling someone to do nothing is the same as telling someone not to bother with changing out the factory plugs in their engine after 100,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Telling someone to do nothing is the same as telling someone not to bother with changing out the factor plugs in their engine after 100,000 miles. Before you throw the carburetor away, and purchase a fuel injection system, it might be helpful to take the car for a spin. Maybe even look at the odometer. I've seen some 1978 autos with surprisingly low mileage. Even that can be bad, seals can dry up. But I digress.....<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I have no quarrel with a desire to make things better. I've been down that road myself. But first, it might be helpful to establish a baseline, and determine if there are any problems. Thus, I agree with those who suggest to "just use them." Since the surrounds are not evaporating in the ozone, like my Dahlquist and Polydax drivers, only the crossover would be aging and going "out of spec." But unless you KNOW THE HISTORY of the equipment... or can TAKE A LOOK at it, all this speculation is fruitless. Hell, these things might HAVE your crossovers in them, already. You never know.... I've seen NO EFFORT (here) to accurately determine the status of the equipment. Why not request nice closeups of the crossovers? Then you could post them and point out what your recommendations are and what the possible benefits might be. Your choice...... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Life is too short to listen to old, dried-out capacitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Believe me when I say this Bill -- you don't want to see a close up of a pair of 30 year old AA's. You're kind of new here, and so you've missed a lot from the past. If I can find them -- there is a thread or two that might help you understand where we're coming from. Have you checked the rubber surrounds on the 4" mid drivers of your DQ's? The rubber is prone to splitting, and you usually can't see the splits unless you gently press around the surround with a wet Q-tip. Use a little Armor All on the end of the Q-tip to clean and lubricate as you check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 ! looks like a perfect match for D-man's vintage green speaker wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Don't know, might be too much of a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 looks like a perfect match for D-man's vintage green speaker wires. Doesn't copper oxide add to the "character" of vintage gear? I mean, it works for copper roofs, gutters and downspouts. [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Dean; i will be driving allot on Monday; cal me on my cell phone if you have time. 248 705 3671 7-9:30 and 12:30-3:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allsmiles Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share Posted August 7, 2006 It is strange but classical and Celtic music sound great on these '78's. Satriani and Eric Johnson also sound great. Some of my classic rock leaves alot to be desired. Savatage "Hall of the Mountain King" sounds mediocre which surprised me. I have listened to the same cd on my newly purchased '92 Klipschorns and Savatage sounded great !!! I must need an upgrade. Why would different cds sound so much better. Also Breads "Greatest Hits" cd was excellent. Kind of wimpy after Savatage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 It is strange but classical and Celtic music sound great on these '78's. Satriani and Eric Johnson also sound great. Some of my classic rock leaves alot to be desired. Savatage "Hall of the Mountain King" sounds mediocre which surprised me. I have listened to the same cd on my newly purchased '92 Klipschorns and Savatage sounded great !!! I must need an upgrade. Why would different cds sound so much better. Also Breads "Greatest Hits" cd was excellent. Kind of wimpy after Savatage. I think Klipsch even with old caps sound great but after almost 30 yers those caps have drifted out of spec and have the potential to sound better. I have Belles and had my caps replaced. I wanted to believe there was a difference in sound so I wasn't an unbiased ear. I had some friends over who had been over tons of times for Sunday beers and tunes and they asked what I had changed. You can get an upgade kit from klipsch or from one of the forum members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I don't think anyone is in a rush to sell anything. I do think many people are in a rush to offer advice... A thirty year old set of Khorns is like any thirty year old Corvette. Whether they were used in anger, or touched nothing but Lawrence Welk all their lives, there are certain items in the crossovers guaranteed to be out of spec. They can still function great, but they are not at their best. The Vette needs new rubber, new hoses, new fluids, major suspension rebuild, and that is all before you do a compression check of the engine. Do you want a decent Vette, a back to specs Vette, or a screamer in tip top order? Your wallet can answer that with the Khorns. The process is similar to a Vette, and the ones who actually are selling a bill may not be the people making crossovers. I have heard the changes in 50, 40 and 30 year old networks, and the improvements do make a new speaker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzp Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 It is strange but classical and Celtic music sound great on these '78's. Satriani and Eric Johnson also sound great. Some of my classic rock leaves alot to be desired. Savatage "Hall of the Mountain King" sounds mediocre which surprised me. I have listened to the same cd on my newly purchased '92 Klipschorns and Savatage sounded great !!! I must need an upgrade. Why would different cds sound so much better. Also Breads "Greatest Hits" cd was excellent. Kind of wimpy after Savatage. Don't forget allsmiles, you are listening to 104Db efficient speakers. Klipsch Heritage speakers are the most powerful magnifying glass in the audio chain. When you have good clean power, good sources and good recordings, you will be highly rewarded. Your poor sources and recordings will also be exposed for what they are. Welcome to Klipsch..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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