Hey Dean Advents in the House-Questions!

[thebes]

Serial numbers 45,904 and 45,881. Walnut, wood veneer with what

looks the same 3/4" mdf/fiberboard stuff they made my Heresy 1's

out of.

Outer foam surrounds are shot. The driver is dated 1972.

My hands are itching from the fiberglass and I can't quite make out the cap values.

When I ran across these I looked at a thread from last year where you

outlined how much you liked these so I thought I'd give them a try.

Questions:

Cap values and suggestions for type of caps with these.

How the hell do I get the crossovers out without wrecking them.

No screws just some kind of brad or nail on the inside of the

box. Do I just whack them with a hammer from behind.

What kind of gunk should I get to seal up the drivers after I fix the surrounds. (Baskets are fine by the way).

What swtich setting on the crossover do you like them at with tube gear.

These are about the same width as my Heresy's and about 3" taller. Does that make them the "large" ones.

Anything else I am forgetting or need to know.

Paid $50 for them from orginal owner who was listening to them up to

about a month ago . From what I can tell that's about all these

go for. However when she asked what I do for a living and I said I'm a

housepainter I ended up with a job so I'm already ahead on this deal.

I think I've hit on a new marketing gimmick. Buy cheap stuff off

of Craigslist from the "better" neighborhoods and casually mention I'm

a painter.

[Guest " "]

"I think I've hit on a new marketing gimmick. Buy cheap stuff off of Craigslist from the "better" neighborhoods and casually mention I'm a painter."

hey if this is your marketing model, maybe you can write off all the toys you buy, in the same way folks right off their buisness lunches.

[oldbuckster]

What color are you going to paint them?

[Ballylongford]

I'd be interested in any solution to removing the crossovers without total demolition: I've removed them with a rubber mallet and they came out OK, but I would not advise anyone else to try that

Some interesting discussion on caps, etc. on the page below:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=5&page=

Enjoy!

[thebes]

"I think I've hit on a new marketing

gimmick. Buy cheap stuff off of Craigslist from the "better"

neighborhoods and casually mention I'm a painter."

hey if this is your marketing model, maybe you can write off all the

toys you buy, in the same way folks right off their buisness

lunches.

Wow you are right! Maybe I should start buying really expensive stuff in the "ritzier" neighborhoods.

Not painted, but I did put some walnut stain on the scratches, worked well.

Thanks for the link Bally. Spent some time looking it over, but I

still think our own Dean's the go-to guy on this. He's got a

bunch these lying around and he is one of our resident crossover guru's

and did a wonderful job, I might add, on redoing the xovers on my KG

5.2's.

[colterphoto1]

Hey Thebes,

Another Forum member gave me 5 of the smaller Advents and 4 of the Large Advents a while back. I have all of the 'fried egg' tweeters and the four large cabinets. Those really are some strange woofers.

Please let me know if you find a solution to the crossover dilema and a suitable replacement or repair for the woofers.

Those really are some nice looking cabinets. Mine have pretty good grilles and everything. If you need some, I did scavenge the Advent metal plate logos from the smaller units.

Michael

[Deang]

The crossovers are point-to-point on a piece of masonite, and then glued and stapled to the particle board. I've never tried to remove them. The first set I did I went all out, and built up new networks with film/foils on a new piece of larger masonite. I reused the toggle switches that were in the original networks. Good results, but they didn't sound quite like the Advents I grew up with. Improved HF and much cleaner, but the balance was upset -- and I couldn't hear the meaty midrange I remembered. So, on my second pair I just replaced the old electrolytics with new ones. I pulled all of the fiberglass out, vacummed the inside of the cabinets, and just did the work through the woofer hole.

Low serial numbers on those, but I can't remember where the cut off is on the first network change they made. I'm pretty sure you're going to see two 8uF electrolytics -- that's it for the caps -- you might see an 8 and a 16. The resistor value should be 3 ohms, and I would replace it with a nice Mills. You will see a very small inductor mounted/glued to cabinet, with leads going to the solder tabs on the toggle switch. Get some light in the cabinet and be careful while working around it -- the wire is between 30 and 40AWG, and you don't want to snap either of the leads off. You can get the caps and resistors through Partsexpress. This is one speaker where you just want to keep it simple. They don't have the resolving power of our horns, and the nice film and foils -- though bringing the highs into the picture a bit more, also tend to make you notice how bad the tweeter is at doing the "tweeter thing". That tweeter starts to roll off at 10kHz, and after 12kHz there isn't much there. I think, though I'm not completely sure -- the thing is like 20dB down at 15kHz. Still, in its range -- just great sound with careful setup.

Partsexpress also sells the surround kits for those, about $30 for a set, with adhesive and decent instructions. Not hard work, just a pain in butt. For reseating the woofer when you're done -- you can use rope caulk, and after you have the driver tightend down you can go around the outside of the driver with an exacto knife to trim the excess.

[thebes]

See! What did I tell you. Go to the forum experts and you

get the real deal. Two paragraphs and he's imparted more

information than the entire Advent site.

The Twins are on one of their summer peramulations around the country

at the moment. I'll see if I can talk them into swinging by your

house to give you a greet big smootch.

Thanks Dean.

[Marvel]

The Twins are on one of their summer peramulations around the country

at the moment. I'll see if I can talk them into swinging by your

house to give you a greet big smootch.

Thanks Dean.

Could you get them to swing by my place, too?

[]

[Daddy Dee]

Thebes, thanks for starting this thread.

I've got a pair of Advent speakers that I've been thinking of having the crossovers rebuilt as well.

The serial number (on the cab with surviving sticker) A 96336

Dean,

Thanks for your take on the best path to take to retain the balance.

In searching the net, ran across one fellow that does some rebuilding.

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm

Dean's post got me to thinking. It is interesting that the better caps revealed the limitations of the poor stock tweeter. I've been wondering if there is an improved tweeter with better HF extension, but which would retain the old balance and great sound of the original.

Any thoughts here?

[Marvel]

Wouldn't that get into the realm of "Now it isn't stock anymore"? They are nice cabinets though, so it would still be a good start.

Bruce

[Daddy Dee]

Wouldn't that get into the realm of "Now it isn't stock anymore"? They are nice cabinets though, so it would still be a good start.

Bruce

Yes, upgrading the tweeter, I think, would definitely be into that realm. That issue is not necessarily an issue for me, though.

[Daddy Dee]

In my internet searching, from time to time I run across Layne Audio, who has some intriguing possibilities listed on the website. Today I noticed that he accepts PayPal, which though he does not offer online ordering, would be a way to order and send payment without having to talk to the man in person or get him to answer an e-mail, which to my experience off and on for the last three years have been an unsurmountable barrier to doing business with Layne Audio.

First, here's what got my attention about the Advent tweeter replacement/upgrade...

"Large Advent"

tweeters: New upgrade

poly dome type tweeter,

$52 each. Very smooth sound with better

high frequency response than the original

"orange" tweeters. Dome is a semi-rigid poly with a

unique catenary [pointy end of an egg] profile for increased strength. Works with the original

crossover design, but you should replace the stock electro capacitor

with a new poly cap to enjoy the tweeter's enhanced sound quality [$6

ea]. These do have larger magnets than the original tweeters, and require minor cabinet work for

mounting.

Sounds good, but then I think, the guy is hard to get hold of, possible to excuse that because he could be a busy one man shop. So I think, hmmm, I wonder if the Better Business Bureau has any info on the guy.... so here's what I found on the BBB Nashville listings...

Customer Experience detailed by BBB:

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record

BBB Definition:

unsatisfactory record - A

company has an "unsatisfactory business performance record" with the

Bureau is based on the experiences reflected in BBB files. This file

condition results when the company has failed to resolve or respond to

complaints, repeatedly failed to respond or resolve issues in a timely

manner, failed to resolve the underlying issues for a pattern

BBB Definition:

pattern - More

than 2 complaints involving the same allegations usually within 12

months that are significant in relation to the company's size and

volume of business.

of

complaints, failed to honor their commitment to mediate or arbitrate

disputes or honor mediated agreements or arbitrated decisions, failed

to substantiate, modify or discontinue false advertising claims that

are challenged by the BBB, or failed to discontinue unauthorized use of

the BBB name and logo, a Federally protected trademark.

with the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record

BBB Definition: unsatisfactory record - A company has an "unsatisfactory business performance record" with the Bureau is based on the experiences reflected in BBB files. This file condition results when the company has failed to resolve or respond to complaints, repeatedly failed to respond or resolve issues in a timely manner, failed to resolve the underlying issues for a pattern BBB Definition: pattern - More than 2 complaints involving the same allegations usually within 12 months that are significant in relation to the company's size and volume of business. of complaints, failed to honor their commitment to mediate or arbitrate disputes or honor mediated agreements or arbitrated decisions, failed to substantiate, modify or discontinue false advertising claims BBB Definition: advertising claims - The Better Business Bureau reviews business advertising, (newspaper, magazine, TV, radio, internet) routinely to ensure that it is truthful and ethical. Claims in advertising are measured against basic advertising principles of the BBB Code of Advertising BBB Definition: BBB Code of Advertising - http://www.bbb.org/membership/codeofad.asp which was developed to guide advertisers, advertising agencies and advertising media. that are challenged by the BBB, or failed to discontinue unauthorized use of the BBB name and logo, a Federally protected trademark.

with the Bureau due to failure to answer complaints.

Specifically, this company has received seven complaints concerning

failure of the cmpany to deliver items paid for in advance and

dissatisfaction with repairs. The company has not answered any of these

complaints and all complaints have been closed as unanswered and unresolved

BBB Definition: unresolved - The company failed to resolve the complaint issues.

.

When considering complaint information, please take into account the

company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the

nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more

important than the number of complaints.

The Bureau processed a

total of 5 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our

standard reporting period. Of the total of 5 complaints closed in 36

months, 1 was closed in the last year.

Delivery Issues BBB Definition:

Delivery Issues - Claims alleging delayed delivery of ordered merchandise. Unresolved BBB Definition:

Unresolved - The company failed to resolve the complaint issues. 1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process. No Response BBB Definition:

No Response - The company failed to respond to the complaint. 1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB or to the consumer to resolve the issues. Issue Not Defined No Response BBB Definition:

No Response - The company failed to respond to the complaint. 3 - Company failed to respond to the BBB or to the consumer to resolve the issues.

Bummer,

but do I take a chance to see if I might be lucky enough to order, pay for, and have the tweeters delivered?

[Deang]

Dee -- while someone like you might be interested in "upgrading" the tweeters, there is a long list of people searching for the vintage ones -- I personally own 4 pair.

What you have is a speaker that doesn't go real low, and doesn't go real high -- where Kloss put the emphasis was on overall balance -- and the midrange. For a two-way, the crossover is extremely low, sitting square at 1kHz. Fact is, there is no suitable replacement tweeter from a practical standpoint. I've found one that might work, but it's borderline -- and hideously expensive. It would be smarter to design a whole new speaker around this fantastic tweeter than to stick into that box. This is just one of those cases where the best thing to do is clean them up nice, fix the surrounds, replace the caps -- and drive them with something decent. If you get them about a foot or so off the floor, and get them into some corners toed well into the listening area -- they throw a great image, and if you watch the volume levels -- the sound is very engaging and non-fatiquing. At any rate, I like the sound of those old tweeters.

[Daddy Dee]

Dean,

Thanks for your take on this. Makes sense as a reasonable way to proceed.

Yeh, I like the sound. I listened to them about a million hours in college.

[colterphoto1]

Dee, how many tweeters do you need? I have 4 lg cabinets and I think I pulled some extra tweets out of the smaller Advents I trashed. So I might have some spares.

Michael

[Daddy Dee]

Michael,

Hey thanks. I hadn't looked back at this thread to see your post.

I've just gotten the advents up and running.after moving to Benton. I'm running them with a HK/430 and I'm amazed at how good they sound. In fact, I'm wondering if they sound that good, do the crossovers really need to be reworked. I might be surprised that they would improve with fresh caps, though.

At this point I'm pretty good with two fully functioning speakers. If you should run across a spare and have more than what you'd need, I'd be glad to have a spare just in case. Or I could just call and say "help" if I have one go bad.

[colterphoto1]

Cool Dee, did you have to refoam or replace the woofers? I forget what shape mine are in but if the cones/spiders are still there I'm sure the surrounds are rotted. I'm more than sure there's at least a couple of extra 'fried egg's here for ya.

Please let me know if you come to terms with redesign or refreshening of your xovers.

Michael

[Daddy Dee]

This pair was in pretty good shape when I bought them about three years

ago on Ebay. I listened to them a while, but wasn't really happy with

the sound. Then one woofer failed and I sent it out to be reconed.

Mostly they've been sitting in my closet since then. I just assumed

they needed the crossover refreshing in a bad way. I am pleasantly

surprised that they sound so good in this room.

I'll let you know what I decide to do on the crossovers.

[Klipschfoot]

'Dragged out my three pairs this weekend. All walnut beveled. I am refinishing a pair to show in the living room. Hey, these DO sound real good. I had about four different speakers in that room over the past year and these sound the best. The in-use pair have the new woofers by Simply Speakers and they sound pretty good. And that walnut! It is gorgeous.