colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Got a crew coming out today. If any of you know me, you know that this 1950 home that seemed very cool and retro is eating me alive in utility bills and ripoff contractors. I won't go into details here. But I have an insulation crew coming out today. Just wanting hints of what to look for or dangers. They are installing the rafter ducts around the entire perimeter of the hip roof, then blowing in like 14" of the loose fibrefill. I have A/C ducts in the attic, and they will be entirely covered. Concerns are the whole house attic fan, for which we've built a 2' wall around, but need to construct a top door way that operates. Also several old-fashioned ceiling lights that might generate heat. Also will be blowing the expandable urethane foam along the outside walls of both crawl spaces. The block is below grade and somewhat damp. They'll be putting the 6 mil vapor barrier down on the crawl floors. THis will help keep the musty smell out of the basement. I do get some water infiltration, which is a big concern if I am ever to build a HT down there. But that is a grade and gutter problem mostly. Also just makes me nervous as hell just having strangers viewing all my speakers, so I'm going out in the garage now to blanket up all the 'good' stuff. Don't want the LSI's to be seen in the back of a Hyundai, knowwhatimean? Any hints? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Michael, Yeh, I know that uncomfortable feeling of having strangers going through the house. The contractor is o.k., but sometimes the "help" is scary. Hope you get some good results with the insulation. I don't know insulation, but what you describe sounds like it should help. One part of the A/C flow problem is leaks. If there are places where your attic leaks air into the house, such as light fixtures, the return air sucks hot air out of the attic into your house. If you ever have a blower door test, about $100 bucks in Little Rock, the tech can go around blowing smoke (or some kind of powder out of a little puffer) and the leaks can be found as you observe the breeze in the particles. Looks like it would make a mess, but it doesn't. That test will also show you where air might be coming in from windows or other wall leaks. The added insulation in the attic should add protection from the radiant root/attic heat. Covering, burying the ductwork with insulation is good. I would suggest to pick up any keys you might have accessible. Five years ago I was moving in a house with a new hardwood floor. After moving in, it was necessary to have the flooring contractor back to complete something left undone. I'd just had new locks put on with double sided dead bolts and had keys sitting in the inside cylinders for convenience, especially if I had to get out in a hurry, (easier than making a new door). Anyway, after the flooring crew left, there was a deadbolt key missing. I had the lock smith back that afternoon to change keys in four doors (eight locks). As far as the crew looking at your Klipsch speakers with hungry eyes.... just be glad you don't have Bose. Heritage are much to heavy to steal and don't have much quick turn over value to get money for meth anyway. I mean, what fence wants Cornwalls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 just got done blanketing the LSI's, the amp racks, and now for Michael's 'spare parts' bins. Photo to follow- you guys are gonna LOVE this one! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Here's what the 'other stuff' looks like! Michael's Used Speaker Junkyard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 You must cover the ground in the crawl space, you really must make sure you have a couple of air holes in the crawl space for proper air movement to vent the crawl space to stop mold and mildew buildup, that is probably what you are smelling. I will never own another home with a crawl space, alot of things can go wrong, sill and floor joist rot, for one. Big job if you have to replace that stuff.........................Good Luck.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shmoe Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I don't know exactly how old your home is, but in houses now the ductwork in an attic now (under code) has to be wrapped in insulation, or the heating contractor may use ductboard (which is the rigid insulation board) and then that is usually covered by blown in insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hey Michael...... Pass the name of your contractor along to me if they do a good job. Our home may be identical to yours and I've been thinking of finding an insulation company to do the same to our home since the price of gas is not going down anytime soon. Thanks...............Pat I'm pretty sure they need to leave an air passage from the overhang/eves up between the rafters to the top of the roof for proper ventilation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 A couple of thoughts Michael........ Personally, I would go with blown cellulose over fiberfill as it has better insulations properties plus it is hypoallergenic (won't be an irritant to your sinus) due to it being made from recycled paper products. If that's not an option, I would ensure that the rate at which they are blowing the insulation in is proper. Blown insulation's effectiviness is not solely a function depth, but it's weight per cubic foot. For cellulose, the correct application is 6 pounds per cubic foot IIRC. Not sure what it is for fiberfill, but you could probably do a google. Another thought I have is for you to look into installing powered attic ventilators that are thermostatic controlled. Getting the stagnant heat out of an attic will increase the effectiveness of the insulation. And although you'll be using electricity to run the ventilators, they don't draw much when running and they work - trust me. I'm fortunate in that I have a 12/12 pitch roof which means that the hot air in the attic gets up & away from the insulation/ceiling surface. And the two powered ventilators I have really get the temps down in my attic. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2006 Michael one thing you can do is change out your light bulbs. It sounds silly but we did it and it's cheap. We bought these { Ultra mini spiral lamps } fluoresent bulbs, they fit in the same space a 60 watt bulbs fits. They put off almost no heat and use much less electricity. They put off 60 watts of light, 900 lumens and only uses 14 watts. They say the bulbs last 10 times longer ? Says guaranteed 9 years . The ones we bought came 6 in a pack and they were less than $2 each bulb. It don't sound like much but if you change out 20 bulbs you use 920 less watts. The best part is the bulbs seem to never burn out and are good for places that are hard to change the bulb. You can't go wrong with insulation or anything to save, the price of electricity is never going to go down in price. Hope you get some good contractors, although it is a good idea to cover the good stuff in the garage, keep them honest, try to bee there if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 dtel, what you said is absolutely true with the savings of energy. I remember somewhere that if every american switched out to the new spiral flourecent lightbulbs that America would use 30% less power!!!!! That is 30% less pollutants and less brownouts and just plain waste. The off side is they are toxic, flourencent's nature if they break and they are fragile. Also they do wear down if you subject them to on off situations as they work best if you can leave them on more than an hour each time it is required. Something with the arcing plates that wear down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yes they used the high-quality fire retardant cellulose fibre insulation. Noted that it was also advertised on the bags 'noise reducing'- yeah! They put the tunnels in around all the hip roof sections, helped me route a couple speaker lines, covered the whole-house attic fan box that Doc made with some fibreglass batts that had around here. Noted the location of old recessed light fixtures so as to hold insulation back from them. They spray a tiny amount of water into the cellulose as it's going down the 4" hose, that way when it hits, it lies down and is dust free. Around here 11" is the required R38. Additional insulation does not do that much more good. The first 6" does mostof the work. I have A/C ducts in the attic, so the mounded it completely around them, helping keep the cold air from gaining temp in the attic. I also had them insulate my two crawl spaces, they put new 6 mil poly down on the ground, and sprayed an expanding urethane foam on the band joists and block walls 1 1/2" thick which I think they said was R12 or so. Already I can hear less street noise- YEAH! and although it's like 95% humidity today, the system has been cycling on and off, not on constantly like it was just yesterday. Anyone in Indy who needs the name of a good contractor, let me know. It wasn't inexpensive, but I'm sure the payback period will be minimal and the increase in comfort is priceless. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Oh yes Dtel, I do use flourescent bulbs whereever the color of light is not an issue (remember I am a photographer) and where I can withstand the buzzing. Even the small transformers in the spiral tube lamps does give off quite a racket when you're as sensitive as I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Michael, what's your wall insulation? My 1930's house had asbestos plates (shingles?) over exterior plasterboard, and only ineffective vermiculite in the walls. This was like a sieve when it came to heat and humidity. I finally had vinyl siding installed over 3/8" foam insulation, and WOW, it made heat and humidity much more controllable by central A/C. It also noticeably reduced noise transmission from the outside. This winter, I installed double-glazed vinyl windows with great temperature- and sound-control benefits. After all, it's only money. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 so you finally tackled this project...is it completely done now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2006 The little bulbs i was talking about screw in in place of a normal bulb and they don't buzz at all, unlike the 4' lights in my shop, they BUZZ. Now you are correct about the color. I don't see it much but in a photo it's a big difference. Being a photographer you will see more of a color change than the average person, most people don't pay much attention. It does make some colors look a little off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Michael, what's your wall insulation? My 1930's house had asbestos plates (shingles?) over exterior plasterboard, and only ineffective vermiculite in the walls. This was like a sieve when it came to heat and humidity. I finally had vinyl siding installed over 3/8" foam insulation, and WOW, it made heat and humidity much more controllable by central A/C. It also noticeably reduced noise transmission from the outside. This winter, I installed double-glazed vinyl windows with great temperature- and sound-control benefits. After all, it's only money. Larry We did the same thing a few years ago Larry. Well worth the money. We sprung for "Cedar Impressions" by Johns Manville for the parts of the house visible from the street. Can't tell it from real wood shingles unless you touch them. Then my wife and I bought celluose insullation from Lowes which came with the free use of a blower machine. Put 14" over the existing 3 1/2" fibreglass in the attic except in the very middle which I put a storage floor on. That is just 8". Our gas bill was the same with the increased cost per therm last year as the year before we put it in with much cheaper gas. We also kept it much warmer in the house with the new gas fireplace. We also converted most of our lights to the low wattage flourescent type a few years ago at a great savings in electricity. My next project, which is laying in the back room, is to replace the tank type water heater with a demand unit. I have to do that when the bride is out of town, my working on gas makes her nervious!?????????[A] Oh yeah, I traded my 12/15MPG Expidition for a new 19/23MPG Sante Fe. I had to fight the dealer to take the Expidition in trade. Wasn't my fault that they advertised paying 30% over Kelly Blue Book for any trade![] Plus $4K in rebates = no payments.[] Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 The little bulbs i was talking about screw in in place of a normal bulb and they don't buzz at all, unlike the 4' lights in my shop, they BUZZ. Now you are correct about the color. I don't see it much but in a photo it's a big difference. Being a photographer you will see more of a color change than the average person, most people don't pay much attention. It does make some colors look a little off. yup, they all buzz. Not as much as the ballasts in the tubes, but I can hear everything. Trust me- it's maddening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Michael, what's your wall insulation? My 1930's house had asbestos plates (shingles?) over exterior plasterboard, and only ineffective vermiculite in the walls. This was like a sieve when it came to heat and humidity. I finally had vinyl siding installed over 3/8" foam insulation, and WOW, it made heat and humidity much more controllable by central A/C. It also noticeably reduced noise transmission from the outside. This winter, I installed double-glazed vinyl windows with great temperature- and sound-control benefits. After all, it's only money. Larry There is NONE at all in the walls. But I have 4" of Indiana Limestone on all exterior walls, 2' overhangs on the roof, no gables, and 1" plasterboard inside. There is a way to blow in insulation, but due to the fireblocking in the walls (2 per stud cavity), it would require drilling THREE holes in the masonry every 16" stud space. I'll have to do away with all the ground cover and overgrown shrubberies first. It'll be about $5000 to do all the exterior walls for this 3,000 ft2 ranch. OUCH. I'm going to wait out this winter to see how much I saved with the ceiling/crawl insulation. I think the next phase might be to do the windows as mine are steel frames casement windows. They do have dual panes, but no vacuum, low E, argon or good seals. They leak and transmit cold terribly. It sounds like a lot of money, but I purchased this home for about half of what they sell for in this neighborhood. No one wanted the task of bringing this place up to modern standards. It was built in 1950 and basically no one ever did anything except put a new roof on. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Oh yes Dtel, I do use flourescent bulbs whereever the color of light is not an issue (remember I am a photographer) and where I can withstand the buzzing. Even the small transformers in the spiral tube lamps does give off quite a racket when you're as sensitive as I am! Hey Michael, if color is a problem use the full spectrum flourecent lightbulbs. They cost around 15 dollars though but last like 9 years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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