Duke Spinner Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Both of you, go to the wood shed !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Both of you, go to the wood shed !!!!!! Hey, I was just on here trying to get some answers. It's not my fault there's people on here who like to be wise-@$$es and start trouble all the time. If you look back through the thread, you'll see everything was going on fine right up until "you know who" had to start shooting off his big mouth and calling me names as usual, ruining every single thread I start. You can tell what kind of person he is just by looking at his avatar. I guess it's to be expected on this forum these days. And I'm the one who usually gets shot down simply because I stand my ground. Go figure... blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 "Kryzzy Masterminds" bifurcation can lead to one of three outcomes (1)a complete solution. That's fine (2) A contradiction. That too is fine: one goes back to th epoint of bifurcation with the KNOWLEGE that the other alternative MUST BE CORRECT (3) Another "dead end" This is the difficult situation. There are two possibilities - (a) select another square from which to make a further bifurcation (an Ariadne's sub-thread, as it were) or ( forget the original bifurcation; go back to the grid as it then appeared and select a totally different square from which to start a completely fresh bifurcation. The disadvantage of (a) is that a Ariadne's sub-thread has only a 25% chance of being correct, so time spent pursuing it could be time wasted. On the other hand if one is within sight of the end when outcome (3) is reached, it seems a pity not to go on! And that indeed is the key. If your second dead end is only a few steps away from the original point of bifurcation, abandon that bifurcation and select another bifurcation point - choice ( in fact. But if you end up more than half way towards the end of the puzzle then press on, ie choice (a). Remember though, Ariadne's subthreads are that more difficult to keep track of. So the choice between (a) and ( will in many cases be a matter of individual preference and judgment. Bifurcation is not logic. Isn't it Trial and error? If you must "Test" the validity of a choice, then you are in a trial, not a logical selection. In programming, we understood that you can solve a problem one of three ways, (1) logic, (2) table lookup, (3) formula. Trial and error is "brute Force", the least elegant approach to any problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 [] Once an idiot, always an idiot. a Smilie Face ... is calling You a name ...?? it is You, sir, who have used the word .....Idiot apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hey Chops, If you don't like the 902s, you can send them to me. [] Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 dang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 "There are a bunch of others out there that own these 902s and claim that they have plenty of high freq energy, even too much sometimes." I am not one of them. Even with new diaphragms. "This is why people add tweeters to Altec and TAD that measure flat to 20Khz already". IB one of those guys. tc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 lol johnny - I love the footnote too: * I'll not dignify the magazine by name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 god i love it here. who ya beat me to it. from now on, all offenders shall remain nameless. MANLAW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 IB one of those guys. tc IB one of those guys...too Charles. I know you have put a lot of time in your project over the last several months. I've been following along pretty well. Putting aside the high extension for a minute, are you finding the active crossover route to be of your likeing? Are you against 3-way? Now my ears are very sensitive to high frequencies but the two way thing was a bit hard to come by for me. I must admit that I will give this another run in the future. I've just got other things on my plate that I want to try. You are good at doing stuff on your own. Why not just build a high quality passive crossover going three way. I have been very pleased. I haven't compared it to active though...so I'm not saying it's better. My 902...511 combo is paired with JBL 2404. Sounds very good to me. jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 IB one of those guys. tc IB one of those guys...too Charles. I know you have put a lot of time in your project over the last several months. I've been following along pretty well. Putting aside the high extension for a minute, are you finding the active crossover route to be of your likeing? Are you against 3-way? Now my ears are very sensitive to high frequencies but the two way thing was a bit hard to come by for me. I must admit that I will give this another run in the future. I've just got other things on my plate that I want to try. You are good at doing stuff on your own. Why not just build a high quality passive crossover going three way. I have been very pleased. I haven't compared it to active though...so I'm not saying it's better. My 902...511 combo is paired with JBL 2404. Sounds very good to me. jc Hi jc, Yeah, I really like the active route very much. Contrary to what some say about the "wonderful sound of op-amps", this Rane crossover doesn't add anything to the sound at all. It's dead silent all the way and is crystal clean, likewise with the Rane Ballance Buddy and Crown D-75A amp. There is only the very slightest hint of hiss coming from the horns, and even then you have to have your face right in the horn to be able to barely hear it. I love the fact that I can tweak the output of both drivers independently of eachother along with the delay on the woofer. The delay alone was a vast improvement in overall sound, once dialed in. As for if I'm against 3-ways, I don't exactly hate them, but there are greater gains to be had with a well setup 2-way. I think 2-ways are much cleaner and natural sounding. I've always preferred 2-way speakers anyway. And as far as the top end is concerned, that has all be taken care of as well with a Behringer DEQ1024. Again, this unit is also dead quiet and doesn't add to the sound either, except for where I've adjusted the EQ of course. As you can tell from the pic below, I am only using the EQ for the top end. Tomorrow I'll pull out the mic and fire up TrueRTA to see where this EQ gets me. I haven't done any measurements since I got all of these extra goodies, so it will be interesting to see what effect the new active crossover has made to the overall system response as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 TrueRTA IN THE BATTERS BOX! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 If you're willing to put an EQ in your system, then perhaps you should consider a constant directivity horn with the typical CD EQ? From the pics I've seen of your room it looks to be rather lush with reverb so you're going to suffer extra from the nonlinear power response of your altec top-end configuration. An alternative to the constant directivity setup (flat power response) would be to implement a lot of acoustical treatment and soak up the frequencies below ~6kHz where you've got a lot of beaming happening. Open cell foam at the early reflection points would be a great place to start. If you had access to an ETF, you should be able to see the effects of the on-axis and off-axis response at your listening position, which would clarify the non-linear power response issue and give you an idea of the most feasible solution to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 If you're willing to put an EQ in your system, then perhaps you should consider a constant directivity horn with the typical CD EQ? An alternative to the constant directivity setup (flat power response) would be to implement a lot of acoustical treatment and soak up the frequencies below ~6kHz where you've got a lot of beaming happening. Open cell foam at the early reflection points would be a great place to start. If you had access to an ETF, you should be able to see the effects of the on-axis and off-axis response at your listening position, which would clarify the non-linear power response issue and give you an idea of the most feasible solution to the problem. I've had CD horns (K-600 and Pyle Pro horn) and didn't like either one, so why would I want to go back to another one? I thought beaming occurred at higher frequencies, not lower. Not to mention that when I listen to my stereo, I'm sitting right in the middle, so if there is any beaming going on, it isn't affecting me anyway. "most feasible solution to the problem" I was unaware of any problem I was having other than the rolled off top end. You've seen the plots I've posted before of my system. You know how flat it can be, so if anything, the room is helping more than it's hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 "...this Rane crossover doesn't add anything to the sound at all...a Behringer DEQ1024. Again, this unit ...doesn't add to the sound either..." BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 BS Yes, you are rather full of "that", aren't you? Who the hell are you to tell me what I do and don't hear on my own damn system?! Oh, I forgot... You have calibration mics and occiliscopes for ears. Stupid me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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