DrWho Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Let's see here, old SS. This is a room with a wall of windows too right? And 20x20x9 are pretty scary dimensions. I have no doubt the SET probably sounds better in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I think this whole thread is just...?? whats the word?.... oh I have it, Magical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Anyone is welcome to have a personal opinion. But since it is personal, it doesn't necessarily apply to others. Someone else might relate, others not. It doesn't prove anything; it's just anecdotal. I think of your situation as extraordinarily limited. An analogy might be made to a guy who could be happy only with a red-headed woman. He's ruled out brunettes for sure, based on one date in which everything went well but just wasn't magical enough. It's harmless enough, just close-minded. Get ready to see this quote in the future, Parrot! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgod Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dukester.......Cactus......Now yer talkin'...Bro. Bill.......Great Band.....Rusty Day on guitar wasn't it? Tim Bogart, Carmine Appice.....Great Rhythm section.......ELF before Rainbow.......Did you meet Jeff Beck?...........ooops what am I doing on thist thread... How people power their set-ups has nothing to do with me.........Going to check out SET's and Khorns in Utica,N.Y. this week, to hear for myself.........having been leaning in the Outlaw Audio way to power my system......still trying to decide....... To all, Now how many of you would like to hear oldbuckster's opinion on Sets and Khorns. This is a guy who was raised on SS . As he stated above he will be making a road trip to my house on this Thursday . He will be able to listen to SS on my Sony STR receiver hooked up to lascalas and fortes in the TV room and Khorns and bottlehead 2A3 paramounts in the living room . Stay tuned ,should be very, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dukester.......Cactus......Now yer talkin'...Bro. Bill.......Great Band.....Rusty Day on guitar wasn't it? Tim Bogart, Carmine Appice.....Great Rhythm section.......ELF before Rainbow.......Did you meet Jeff Beck?...........ooops what am I doing on thist thread... How people power their set-ups has nothing to do with me.........Going to check out SET's and Khorns in Utica,N.Y. this week, to hear for myself.........having been leaning in the Outlaw Audio way to power my system......still trying to decide....... To all, Now how many of you would like to hear oldbuckster's opinion on Sets and Khorns. This is a guy who was raised on SS . As he stated above he will be making a road trip to my house on this Thursday . He will be able to listen to SS on my Sony STR receiver hooked up to lascalas and fortes in the TV room and Khorns and bottlehead 2A3 paramounts in the living room . Stay tuned ,should be very, very interesting. Your going to let OB in your house? you better put away the silver wear and put away the loose cash. Make sure he drives over in the 911 so you can get a ride. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Of course, not all SS amps sound anyway near the same. A few are intended to sound softer, more tube like, but with higher RMS power. The earlier SSs I happened to hear (when they were new) sounded unbelievably harsh. Even a great name like Marantz (before Saul sold it, left the company, or died, I think) made a very harsh and thin sounding 80 wpc power amp. Compared to my Dyna 40 wt Tube and McIntosh 40 wt Tube, it sounded hard, thin, metallic, and terrible-- I couldn't believe how terrible -- directly compared on Khorns, JBL 4350 pro studio monitors (their big one of the era), and even on the more forgiving Bozak Concert Grands. I never heard a Pioneer SS amp that I particularly liked, but I may not have heard the model (Pioneer SA 6500) that Pauln has been so carefully evaluating (thanks, Pauln). In the 80s, 90s, & 00s, some SS amps were fuller and silkier. The Luxman L 580 (100 wpc) integrated was warm and tube like, but more precise sounding than the tube models I happened to compare it to (c.1980), and the 1988 Yamaha 135 wpc power amp was more than adequate -- bright, but not harsh. The NAD 272 150 wpc power amp (c. 2002) is slightly better, with higher resolution. As to preamps, my old Dyna Pas-3 Tube model (1970s) gets dragged out of moth balls from time to time when other preamps are in the shop, and it will equal, or surpass them all, except it has way too much hiss for K-horns. Hey, Pauln ... if you ever get a hold of a Luxman L 580, I'd love to hear your assessment of it vs SET, on very dynamic material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Dr Who, The 20x20x9 was a gross estimate - the back actually leads into three other parts of the house, with the straight back direction going into the dinning room through an 8x10 entry. I know square rooms are to be avoided - I should have been more precise about the estimate. I do have almost all glass from floor to ceiling on the front wall between the LS, covered by thin accordion pleat blinds (sort of like old fasioned continuous form printer paper). What is it that your calculation is showing, and how would it change if the back wall was more correctly calculated as an average 35 feet or so (its is irregular because of the three exits)? It is showing the room modes (nodes?) (antipodes?). What would the ideal dimensions show? I tend to think that the glass makes for a pretty live space mitigated by carpert on slab floor. Does that mean that the highs and mids would be up and the bass down? I actually like the response in this room with SETs... I don't think I really load the room at the volumes I listen, or maybe the room loads early at lower volumes because of the glass? Are you suggesting that the room is more optimal for SET and not so good for SS because of this? Or that the room is real bad for SS and so so for SET? In the near future all the listening will be in another room where I can place the LS on the long wall -- it's about 18x13x11 all enclosed and will be a dedicated room so I can add treatments with impunity - how does that space calculate in your program? What treatments might I consider? When I had my Herseys in there they sounded better than anywhere else I've tried. Well now I am putting in the SETs in shortly to resume musical enjoyment... after not hearing them for a few weeks I'm digging getting them back into service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Oldbuckster's Rock n' Roll Travelin' Road Show is ready for take-off............Off to Utica N.Y. to hear SETS for myself.......running SETs through Khorns......Let's hear what all the talk is about.........I will keep an open mind, yeah right, ready to hear what all the fuss is about.........LOW wattage vs. HIGH wattage..........SET compared to SS.....My ears, I'll bring some musical material of my choice, warm up your tubes MARKGOD, get ready to defend SETs honor.............This show is now hours away...........Mark might be sorry he ever wished this on himself.........This show is for real, So warm up the tubes Mark, oldbuckster is on his way.........Oh Boy................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Seriously Underwhelmed..... is where yer going, O.B. good thing the SET's are on KHorn's the only Slam you hear.... will be that 911 door .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 For you Oldbuddy. Just a couple of quick pics. First is a Pioneer. I dragged it out and I tried on my Heresys. It goes loud enough but it's too noisy for me. I plugged it into some old speakers I have and it seems to work okay for computer sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Another one Oldbuckster. It's an old Sony receiver. it works okay but has that typical 1970's crap s/s sound. Ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 This is my workstation at the back of my music room. I do stuff here. That's a VPI 16.5 record cleaner on the top of the desk. There's a couple of turntables on the shelves I've been working on. They go okay now. I'll probably give them to someone deserving. I've got some other 1970's stuff somewhere. Actually I might have an old Jolida tube amp shoved into a corner - that's junk too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I have a million things that need to get done, but I just wanted to thank you, Paul, for your observation that... "Anyone is welcome to have a personal opinion. But since it is personal, it doesn't necessarily apply to others. Someone else might relate, others not. It doesn't prove anything; it's just anecdotal. I think of your situation as extraordinarily limited. An analogy might be made to a guy who could be happy only with a red-headed woman. He's ruled out brunettes for sure, based on one date in which everything went well but just wasn't magical enough. It's harmless enough, just close-minded." Regards, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 the only Slam you hear.... will be that 911 door .... Duke, that was cold!!! I don't think anyone here--certainly not I--has ever said that anyone else does not have a right to his opinion. Arguments over SET have been about facts, not opinions, such as distortion figures, frequency response, and compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 it be interseting when O.B. post's back on the SET thingy he is a closet SETophile, being a low level, early AM quiet kinda listener..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 about facts, not opinions, such as distortion figures, frequency response, and COMPRESSION Personally, ... I don't get IT........ I have gone to great lengths to ensure a 50 dB dynamic range in my system... Doesn't anyone go out and listen to Live music ..?? I guar-an-tee that a 3.5 watt amp does not reproduce a 30" Kick Drum, as God intended your ears to hear it and, ................your body to feel it ......[] when I listen to a 3.5 watt amp ....... all I can hear is Compression.....with the concommitant Distortion,.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 SET vs. old SS: And the answer is: Any old SS amp will crush any SET amp. SET is lifeless, not only at high volumes but at low volumes too. It's not necessary to play a recording of a symphony at anywhere near a realistic level to figure that out. If, if, there were something going on with SET at low levels that could not be rendered better by a push-pull or even some SS amp, then SET would merit some consideration. But it's always anemic, that's just the way it is. SET has inverse bragging rights about being low-watt, but other than as a science demonstration, so what? Every time I've heard SET being demonstrated for potential sale, it's always the same little girl jazz singer kind of material, maybe with someone tapping a couple bass strings or brushing a drum kit. SET is barely passable that way, if you want to restrict yourself to that kind of source music. If you put on anything with some energy, it comes out spiritless. Parrot's first post in this thread... is very informative! Duke, I forget which 2A3 SET amp you've heard. can you refresh our recollection again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Parrot's first post in this thread... is very informative! Yeah, I aim to tell it like it is, none of this wishy-washy, anything and everything is equally good stuff. Just because anyone can have an opinion does not mean that everyone has an equally good solid factual foundation to support his opinion. Someone can have an opinion that is utterly devoid of facts. Someone can have an opinion that the best way to fly to Paris is by glider. Does that mean that everyone else should respect his opinion and take it seriously? "Lifeless" and "spiritless" are not words you'll find by taking measurements. But the measurements themselves might very well lead you to predict that the listening experience will be "lifeless" and "spiritless" to you subjectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Duke, I forget which 2A3 SET amp you've heard. can you refresh our recollection again? Since You have phrased that Question so politely...... I have never been asked which SET amps I have listened to.... now .... I don't have any AXE to grind, here ..... but ANY SET amp i have run in my system ... well ... they just can't hack it... Did I mention 50 dB Dynamic range ...??? wll ... I did ... i have tried running SET for Mids .... Great ...'till I want some ...Spank...... I constantly was causing the I.O.C light to come on , using a 100w. Crown on the Mid's.... that's more than .05% Distortion ... Input Output Comparator...... had to go 200w. where, oh, where ....did the SET amp leave me ..?? 20- 30% Distortion ...? and ... no ...THWACK ....!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.