joessportster Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 ok as most here know i just ordered and payed for a clear audio level 2 champ, my initial thoughts were to get a rega 300 and upgrade the wires and weight but i have found a reasonable price on a couple other arms at least they seem reasonable i found a sme 3009 complete fixed headshell for 300.00, or a moth oem 2 with wire upgrade 450.00, or an adc straight wand for 200 any insight on these would be helpful thanks Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 SME 3009 Series II I assume? Is it labeled "Improved"? $300 might be a bit high for the Improved version. Despite the "Improved" label, many think it was not and improvement at all. I don't find a great deal of difference between the two but the non-improved arms are worth more. If it is just labeled SME 3009, then it is an early one and would be even more desirable yet according to vintage enthusiast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 ok as most here know i just ordered and payed for a clear audio level 2 champ, my initial thoughts were to get a rega 300 and upgrade the wires and weight but i have found a reasonable price on a couple other arms at least they seem reasonable i found a sme 3009 complete fixed headshell for 300.00, or a moth oem 2 with wire upgrade 450.00, or an adc straight wand for 200 any insight on these would be helpful thanks Joe Joe, Read my post to your other thread. Clearaudio offers you alternatives of known quality, and not prohibitive cost. Save yourself, from yourself. Klipsch out, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Hello Joe I am not an expert but I play one on tv! I did recently go through an arm upgrad process and am really really happy with the results. From what I know, Edmund is pretty right on here. If you are going to continue using the sonata ( great cartridge used them for years) the clearaudio arms are a no-brainer choice. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 i will be using a denon 103 new basically, for a while eventually i want to get the shelter 901 Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 i will be using a denon 103 new basically, for a while eventually i want to get the shelter 901 Joe An SME 3009 "non-improved arm works great with this cartridge. However I have no experience with Champion turntable so I don't know if this arm would be a good mate with it. From an appearance standpoint, I think an SME 3009 would look out of place on the very modern looking Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 i will be using a denon 103 new basically, for a while eventually i want to get the shelter 901 Joe Hi Joe, The SME 3009 (or Series II) is a great combination with the DL-103, as that is what I am using on my TD-124. This would be the non-improved arm mind you. I think for the price it's a heck of a deal, and will hold you over till you get the Shelter and the arm to go with it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 One of my customers who shares my vinyl habit is using a brand new Hadcock arm with the Denon 103 on a "modern" table (can't remember which one) and he says it's a match made in heaven. I think he told me he paid about $700 for it brand new. I have never heard the Hadcock, but it seems to be an EXCELLENT value from what I've read and heard. The older models were low mass, but the current reissues have quite a bit of added mass, so that's probably why the Denon will work. By the way, the Rega arm is supposed to be THE ideal modern arm for the Denon 103 according to many users over on the Vinyl Asylum. So, if I were you I'd get a used, modded RB250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The 103 is a great cart, to be sure, but I'm pretty sure that you will run into a compliance mismatch with most of the Rega based arms. Some users do report good results, but I am a bit skeptical. I would not suggest that you pick an arm around a low cost (but very good) Denon 103. (I also think an older SME arm would look a bit out of place on the Clearaudio - definitely 2 different schools of turntable thought.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I would not suggest that you pick an arm around a low cost (but very good) Denon 103. You're kidding, right? Have you ever heard a 103 with a matched table/arm? I can tell you from my own experience that this low cost cartridge kills with the proper arm. He already has the cartridge, and it will have to be what he uses until more funds are available to purchase the Shelter 901. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 kev mike is correct i already have the denon and currently using it on the basis rega 300 combo untill it is delivered to colnial ho here on the forum, he will get the grado sonata ref cart with the basis table and clamp, i think the denon sounds damb fine on the rega and basis, although im sure the basis and champ is apples to oranges i am pretty sure they would hold me over till more funds become available, im not sure the sme would work on the champ without modifying the arm board which i wont do.......... allen i was just looking at the hadcocks on line they are between 799 and 899 at the site i found i will have to wait to get the champ at any rate as i want to be sure it will fit without modifying the table Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 If you go for the Shelter, I would investigate higher mass tonearms. I was using a modded RB 250 but after exploration landed on the Origin Live Encounter which has a much higher mass (14.5 grams vs 11 grams for the Rega) and mates exceptionally well with the low compliance Shelter. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Personally I am not very fond of Rega arms....one reason is the lack of VTA adjustment. A neighbour used to have the RB250 and I was not particularly impressed, neither by its sound, nor by the way it 'felt'. The beauty of SME arms (talking about vintage ones) is that all the important parameter can be adjusted quite easily. That not only leaves room for experiements, but also helps to get an idea of how the sound of a cart might by changed by different alignments. As I also like their looks, it's not surprising that I decided to purchase SME arms []. Added bonuses: deservedly or not, but they are a pretty sound investment as prices for used SMEs seem to be rising and for most arms you still get spare parts directly from the manufacturer (the exception is mentioned below). BTW: the SME Series III is a bit of a step-child amongst 3009 arms. I find that quite unfair as it's pretty versatile. SME used to sell add-on weights allowing the arm also to be used with cartridges that need a medium mass arm (try ebay)....and that covers quite a range of cartridges. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I would not suggest that you pick an arm around a low cost (but very good) Denon 103. You're kidding, right? Have you ever heard a 103 with a matched table/arm? I can tell you from my own experience that this low cost cartridge kills with the proper arm. He already has the cartridge, and it will have to be what he uses until more funds are available to purchase the Shelter 901. Mike Slow down there, Mike. I currently run the same set-up as you - Thorens 124, SME 3009, Denon 103. I agree. It's a great cart. I just wouldn't recommend purchasing an arm around it. Our 3009's can be used with a boatload of great cartridges, but I'm not sure a heavy arm is the best choice for Joe's new table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I would not suggest that you pick an arm around a low cost (but very good) Denon 103. You're kidding, right? Have you ever heard a 103 with a matched table/arm? I can tell you from my own experience that this low cost cartridge kills with the proper arm. He already has the cartridge, and it will have to be what he uses until more funds are available to purchase the Shelter 901. Mike Slow down there, Mike. I currently run the same set-up as you - Thorens 124, SME 3009, Denon 103. I agree. It's a great cart. I just wouldn't recommend purchasing an arm around it. Our 3009's can be used with a boatload of great cartridges, but I'm not sure a heavy arm is the best choice for Joe's new table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry for sounding a little overexuberent, but I am very fond of my vinyl rig at the moment, and was not aware you had the same combo. I apologize. That's funny you say that tho, but that is exactly how I built my TT system. I started with the cartridge, and realized I couldn't play it with my Dual CS-5000 (which Joe has also owned), and started looking for an arm to put it on. When I decided to put it on an SME 3009 I then needed to find a table to mount the arm on... and as luck would have it that turned out to be a TD-124. [] In Joe's case, I don't think $300 is too big of an investment to be up and running... then when he's ready to buy the Shelter, he can go ahead and get the arm that suits that cart/table best. He would have no problems selling the SME/Denon if he were to choose, or if it were me I would find a nice used TD-124 to mount that combo on. He would then have 2 rigs in case one goes down for one reason or another. [] Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry for sounding a little overexuberent, but I am very fond of my vinyl rig at the moment, ................................................................. ................... if it were me I would find a nice used TD-124 to mount that combo on. [] Mike We know.................we know...........................we know already!!!!!! Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Of all people, you should talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry for sounding a little overexuberent, but I am very fond of my vinyl rig at the moment, ................................................................. ................... if it were me I would find a nice used TD-124 to mount that combo on. [] Mike We know.................we know...........................we know already!!!!!! Klipsch out. Really, Mike has a TD-124? I had no idea. I wonder what type of preamp and amps he has? <Sarcasm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Of all people, you should talk! Mike, Sorry my comment stung. I have said this before, but I'll repeat it. I am a vinyl ethusiast first and foremost. There are a multitude of choices available for playback. Do I own a VPI product? Yes. I will gladly provide what information I can for those interested. Do I think VPI is the only option one should consider when looking at playback sources? No. In fact, I try attempt to share what small knowledge I have that's based on personal experience, or auditions, testimonials of others, or research, discussions or correspondence with distributor,manufacturers, and designers. That covers more that VPI products. I looked at many options before buying VPI tables, and knew there was more than one capable of delivering the performance I desired. I've also said this before, I get no cut regardless of product chosen. I think it is not a good sign when everyone is using the same products, therefore I try to control my "homer" instinct to recognize the broader issues which should bring a broad array of products into consideration. Thoughtful evaluation by each person of their individual requirements and audio path, should result in a wide array of products being deployed in systems. Everyone should NOT be purchasing the same thing. Diversity rules in audio too. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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