BEC Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Shawn, Only if the woofer impedance goes down do we have a worse number for the effect of the fuse. If the woofer impedance goes up, the fuse would have less relative effect. As we get into these rapidly changing effects and think of how music works, it become less likely in my opinion that the effect of the fuse could be reliably heard than if we did an AB test using a pure tone. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 All, I relaced the DFH fuse attachment that I had posted previously. Forgot that editing a post deletes the previous attachment. Now its back. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Guys, What Bob point out is why I don't beleive you can hear the fuse unless you THINK you hear it. The power of suggestion is EXTREMELY powerfull! Btw: Bob left out a few other sources of DCR, that is the 4 Ohms or so of the wire in the voice coil and that of the speaker cables. Changes on the order of .2 Ohms in a system that has a total of about 5 Ohms is quite insignificant. At least the DCR of the fuse does not de-Q the inductor the way the same amout of resistance associated with a coil wound of smaller wire would. That I think you WOULD hear. Al K. Al, Not sure I can agree with you on the change in Q. The signal can't tell the difference between DCR in the coil or in the fuse holder. If I measure the Q at 1 khz directly on your 2.4 mH inductor, I get 25. If I measure it with the fuse in the path, I get Q = 17.5. If I measure Q at 120 hz, for the coil I get 4.9 and with fuse in the path I get 2.9. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Bob, "As we get into these rapidly changing effects and think of how music works, it become less likely in my opinion that the effect of the fuse could be reliably heard than if we did an AB test using a pure tone. " No doubt. For things like subtle level or FR differences tests tones (esp. pink noise) is typically more revealing of differences then music is. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I was actually surprised by the near 1/4 ohm measurement of the fuse -- that's a lot more than I thought it would be. That is basically the difference in DCR you find between a 14AWG and 10AWG 2.4mH solid air core (.37 as opposed to .17). In the Klipschorn at least, and with tube amps -- the difference is very easy to hear. Not only is the difference easy to hear, but it takes less than 30 seconds into a song with strong bass lines or kick drum to know you like the big inductor better. The improvement I heard was why I started using the Erse Super 'Q' with the .167 DCR spec. I can't possibly imagine someone not being able to hear this -- heck, I think even Bob could hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Bob, You're right. I made that post while I was at K&L and I was distracted in the middle of it. One of the engineers was asking me to explain how to do Norton transforms on a bandpass filter and I lost my train of thought. Sticking a DC resistance in seris with and inductor inside a filter WILL definitly de-Q the response. I'll take that back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Al, I may have the perfect solution. I found these fuses that exactly replace the one you had in there and these measure 0.07 ohms DCR. I think they even give an indication when they blow. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Bob Being a city-type, took me a few to figure out what your fuse actually was. Did you measure the DCR at the firing pin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. patrick Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Fritz, that is a rimfire cartridge, so it will sound quite different than a larger caliber cartridge with a center charge to be hit by a firing pin. Lower "kick" in the sound and, probably less audible bass . . . . . . .. but can't really say until you start rolling cartridges . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Bob, So THAT'S the kind of network that you use on your personal stuff, huh? It's probably just a trade in...yeah, that must be it.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 As you can see in the picture, those networks have their place. Just barely though, I am running out of room. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 As you can see in the picture, those networks have their place. Just barely though, I am running out of room. Bob Crites [][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn#1 Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 You guys are something else, I don't post often but when I do, it seems to open several cans of worms. I do feel honored when AL,BEC,DEAN,D-MAN,SPEAKERFRITZ,ETC get involved with the discussion, you guys know so much,it blows my mind. I'll be honest, when I saw a pic of AL'S es - networks and saw that fuse, I thought I'll leave the fuse in during AL'S two week buy back guarantee and if I decide to keep them which I most likey I will, I will remove the fuse. I've owned several Heritage models and have never used fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Bob, I don't think I would want to blow that fuse! Guys, Look at it this way: If you think the fuse is messing up the bass, just short it out (with something a bit safer than a bullet preferably). Take out the 1 1/2 amp I use and put in a 10 Amp or larger. At least with it there, you have the choice! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Just getting back to this thread? Still no answer, Just speaking from my standpoint: I run a Scott 233 and Dynaco Mark 111's on my Khorns. So how would these particular amps react to the fuse? I could do some blind testing. KCM lives close and has a very keen ear he would be a good judge. Although his Altec's may have cloged his ears a little[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 You're running low powered tube amps with low damping factors -- I would bypass the fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Guys, 0.078 Ohms! B I G D E A L ! BTW: My GR 1608 impedance bridge confirms the measurement. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 LOL! That's quite a bit different than what we had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Yeah, it is dependent on the size fuse. I just measured the fuse in the other crossover of this pair and got 0.106 ohms on that one. It is a 1.5 amp. The first one I measured had a 1 amp and read about 0.25 ohms. Not sure which is the one Al would have shipped the Type A crossover with. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 That .22 cartridge is starting to look pretty good, I mean, at least they're all the same (or are they:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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