redtop Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I've run across an Outlaw 7100 amp for sale near where I work. It's a 100 watts x 7 channels at 8 ohms. I am currently using a Yamaha RXV-3000 receiver with no separate amp. I've seen the conversations here about receiver vs separates and I've wondered from time to time what I'm missing...so curiousity is rearing it's ugly (and expensive) head...[] I would use it in the theater setup listed in my sig. Legends all around. I NEVER listen at high volumes (60-70 db is common). Sooo a couple of questions o' wise ones... What improvements to sound quality should I expect to hear if I still use the Yammie as a pre/pro? Greater detail? More punch? Many here have recommended 200 watts per channel for the KLF-30's. I'm not in any hurry to "amp" my system. Would you pass on the 7100 and watch for a 200 watt per channel unit? Is there a difference (between 100w and 200w) I will hear or "feel" at my listening levels? Any guidance appreciated. Thanks in advance. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I've run across an Outlaw 7100 amp for sale near where I work. It's a 100 watts x 7 channels at 8 ohms. I am currently using a Yamaha RXV-3000 receiver with no separate amp. I've seen the conversations here about receiver vs separates and I've wondered from time to time what I'm missing...so curiousity is rearing it's ugly (and expensive) head...[] I would use it in the theater setup listed in my sig. Legends all around. I NEVER listen at high volumes (60-70 db is common). Sooo a couple of questions o' wise ones... What improvements to sound quality should I expect to hear if I still use the Yammie as a pre/pro? Greater detail? More punch? Many here have recommended 200 watts per channel for the KLF-30's. I'm not in any hurry to "amp" my system. Would you pass on the 7100 and watch for a 200 watt per channel unit? Is there a difference (between 100w and 200w) I will hear or "feel" at my listening levels? Any guidance appreciated. Thanks in advance. Brad Recommended 400w for KLF30's??? WHO SAID THAT? They are 102dB sensitivity are you INSANE? I have 150x2 seperate amp pushing my F-3's and part of me wishes I saved money and bought the 50x2 amp instead, I have an overkill amount of power and mine are only 97dB Do the KLF30's have a big impedance dip like the RF-7s did? Maybe thats why they recommended 400w but still, geesh. But anyway how much are they asking for the Outlaw, DrWho told me before Outlaw amps are just commercial pro amps in home audio cases, and many have said their amps aren't as good in terms of sound quality then most home audio receivers/amps. Expesually for 2 channel. Outlaw makes one hell of an awesome pre/pro though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I'm not sure on the 7100 but I had a 7125 and it was a kick'n amp,it sounded as good or better than my adcom 5500(200 watts per) and a slew of other amps I've owned.It was no "commercial"amp,if I recall it's an ATI amp rebadged.Great with music and miles above any avr amp I've ever heard.Price is the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I'm not sure on the 7100 but I had a 7125 and it was a kick'n amp,it sounded as good or better than my adcom 5500(200 watts per) and a slew of other amps I've owned.It was no "commercial"amp,if I recall it's an ATI amp rebadged.Great with music and miles above any avr amp I've ever heard.Price is the thing. Seems I was misinformed about Outlaw, I was pretty sure DrWho said they were pro amps in nice looking cases though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I own Outlaw's 990 pre/pro & 7500 amp (5 x 200). Both units are outstanding imo. The consensus on the Outlaw board is their amps are rebadged ATI amps, made & ship from the same factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Thanks for the replies guys...I figured there might be one or two satisfied Outlaw users on this forum...[] I don't do a lot of equipment swapping or upgrading, so that is the reason for my question about 100w vs 200w per channel. I have heard nothing but good about Outlaw equipment. I (and my lovely wife, hehe) prefer not to "try" equipment and keep rotating it out until I have the right stuff. Makes her think I don't have a clue about what I'm doing. If you think 200w is going to make a difference I can hear at my low listening levels based upon my speaker setup, then I will probably wait. At $500 and 2 years left on the warranty the amp seems to be a good deal, but not a "screaming" good deal... Any additional comments welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 www.outlawaudio.com Click on this........they will answer your questions...check the web yourself..........The way I understand it is they design what they want, and have outside sources build it to their specs.....I don't believe they are re-Badged units at all..............Go to their site..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 redtop, my Outlaw Audio 950 PrePro and 7100 amp are powering your Oiled Walnut Heresys with Heresy surrounds and an Academy center...albeit all with new crossovers (BEC for the Heresys and popbumper K-Stack for the Academy)...I think it sounds fantastic...I agree that $500 for used is not a smokin' deal but the warranty is transferrable and I paid $900 for mine new... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Great to hear from you Bill. Very glad to hear that the old Heresy's are still cranking out great tunes. Everyone seems to agree that Outlaw gear is very solid and I certainly trust the opinions I get here. My only question continues to be... will 100 Outlaw watts per channel be close enough to optimum with my KLF-30's that I won't need to worry about what I am missing if I waited for 200 watts per channel? If I bought a 200wpc amp later would I hear a 5% improvement? 50%? 100%? I guess it boils down to will $500 spent now get me to 90% or more of the performance possible with a $1,500+ 200wpc amp? It's so confusing...[] But that's why I am thankful for the guys like you on this forum...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Redtop, I purchased a 7100 used for $450 and a 950 for $475. Improved my speakers, non-Klipsch for now, over my Sony that I had. Any chance that you can test it out on your system to see for yourself? BTW that setup is what I'm going to use for 83's and 64, a birthday present to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 To me 100 watts won't be enough. I beleive those speakers do have a great impendance swing in them. I would want to get 150 to 200 watts a channel. I do think the 100 watt outlaw would be better than the receiver though. I just think you could save up a little bit more money and get something that will last you longer. Take it with a grain though because I am using a 380 watts per channel amp with my RF3II's. I did have many differnt amps before I settled with this and probaly my last amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Thanks Easy. I remember now that "impedance swing" was the term I had heard discussed before either here or in the 2 channel area in reference to the large Klipsch speakers and 200+ watts per channel. In your opinion what does properly handling the impedance swings add to the sound field? I have the funds to purchase a $1,500-$2000 200+ wpc amp, but since I am a bang for the buck guy, I try not to buy more just for the sake of having bigger specs. Is it going to do something for the sound? That's what I am trying to find out. Any comments appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 What a 200 wpc amp will do better over 100 wpc outlaw depends on what you think it should do better............will it be louder, maybe, I'm not sure.......should it sound better at low volume, I would hope so..........another word to throw around.......more headroom....it all depends on what you want and what you ears hear...........I bet that outlaw gear is pretty nice........your money.......your choice.......will a $2000. amp really make it better... A better question is what kind of power do you want......SS..or Tubes...if tubes..what kind?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getech Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Outlaw amps are pretty much discounted on the AVS boards.... First and foremost an output transformer, or any transformer for that matter, is an impedance-matching device. Impedance matching is used to transfer a source of power to a load so that both the power source and the load are operating under optimum conditions for maximum efficiency. What other kinds of impedance matching devices are there? Some such mechanical devices include an automobile transmission, bicycle gears, and a simple lever. Besides the transformer, a dc-to-dc power converter is an electrical type of impedance matching device. The dc-to-dc converter can convert a high voltage at low current into a low voltage at high current, or vice versa. Dc-to-dc converters form the basis of the switching power supply, but usually contain added complexity for regulated power supply applications. In its simplest form, the output voltage or current of the dc-to-dc converter is always related to its input by a proportionality constant which is just like the turns ratio in a transformer. Like the transformer, impedance matching goes as the square of this constant. Hope this answers your concerns about Outlaw. Stick with the more established brands and you won't go wrong. PS. .first thing is for you to get rid of your Yamaha.Good luck my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Most of the jokers on AVS think an avr is better that separates so.......ATI makes the Outlaw amps and I'd put em' against ANYTHING similar new in the price and put $100 down almost no one could tell the difference.I have Rotel and the Outlaw sounds about as good as it,or my old BK's,Adcom,Parasound etc......Of course only my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Now boys...let's play nice in this thread...[] The Outlaw is a moot point now. When I called the guy again last night he tried to up the price to $600. Said he had a offer of $650. I told him that since I was of the "free trade" persuasion that he should sell it to the other guy...but if he came back to me, the original price of $500 would be too high for me and we would have to come to a new agreement at a significantly lower price. That got him stammering a little...and I politely ended our conversation. [] Who knows...might even see it on Ebay in the next few days. This conversation about amps has been educational for me. Thanks to all. I'll just keep looking for the next good deal to come along...hopefully a 200wpc amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 You did the right thing,$500 is just ok,600 ehh and $650 out of the ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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