My Jubilee adventure

[dhtman]

I don't have Khorns. My room isn't suitable--only ONE corner. The Jubilee is a free standing speaker that doesn't HAVE to be in a corner, so I am indeed interested.

I paid under $400 for my Cornwalls, so it was NO BIG DEAL to pay for them and drag them home for a listen. I once bought a pair of Belles for $500 and ended up selling them because the Cornwalls sounded better to me. My MC30s were $200 each. My TD124 was $50, my C22 was $400. I spent more money making my ALK crossovers with Jensens than I did for the speakers themselves! I paid more for the last SPU I bought than I have in my table PLUS the SME 3012 arm! The list goes on and on--I really, really HATE spending huge wads of cash on hi-fi gear. On the other hand, I have MANY times handed over a wad of hundreds for a single LP. I know this makes little sense to most of you, but thats how I operate. I am first and foremost a jazz lover and RECORD COLLECTOR--the hi-fi stuff is really only a natual offshoot from that!!

The only two really EXPENSIVE piece of audio gear I have ever purchased are my $3500 BAT CD player and my $2400 Ikeda tonearm. And yes, I took the BAT home and listened to it through MY amps and preamp and MY speakers before buying it. I would NOT have handed over three grand without doing so. The Ikeda was purchased because of my fond memorieds of the FR64 (also designed by Mr. Ikeda) and because I have ALWAYS lusted after this particular 12" arm and also because Mr. Ikeda is about 85 years old now and he is not making any more new arms--I bought what I thought might be one of the last ones. The Ikeda was an EMOTIONAL purchase to be sure--one that was certainly "out of character!" I could have scoured up another 3012 for less than half of what the Ikeda set me back, but I don't regret the purchase. I LOVE the tonearm and use it to play all of my Stereo records!

So, for me to lay out $12,000 for a pair of speakers I would INDEED have to listen to them carefully under pretty similar conditions that I have here at home. If I could do that and I really loved them, I would buy a pair in a heartbeat.

I don't like laying out large sums on audio either. After looking for over a year for a used pair of Khorns which change hands in England for $4000 minimum, I figured that it would be worth springing for what was intended as the successor to the Khorn, especially as the Jub was designed to address the flaws in the Khorn's design. And my $4000 on Khorns would have been just the start - professional wood refurbishing, replacement drivers and crossover could easily have doubled the outlay and it would still have been an old speaker.

I'm still using the FR64s I bought in 1981- I had massive doubts about spending so much on a tonearm back then, yet it has given so much pleasure for so long that it has turned out to be a bargain (and I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it if I chose). I expect the Jubs to be similar in giving many years of enjoyment.

I opted for the bi-amped version of the Jubilee. The Electrovoice crossover is a very sophisticated device - it would certainly be possible to adjust the EQ to take care of any undesired room effects. That said, my personal experience is that every piece of audio that has sounded convincing in someone else's room has worked really well in my room too.

[mas]

I think your rationale regarding the expense analysis of the Klipschhorn versus the Jubilee has merit, and the Jubilee seems to be a marvelous speaker in many respects, but I will make one observation about your coment regarding an EQ correcting for room anomalies. It will not correct anomalies that are not minimum phase! It can indeed help smooth the direct signal response of the Jubilee, but an EQ can not correct for a complex non-minimum phase superposed signal consisting of both the direct signal and the complex later arriving reflections featuring a modified spectral content.

[Coytee]

I think your rationale regarding the expense analysis of the Klipschhorn versus the Jubilee has merit, and the Jubilee seems to be a marvelous speaker in many respects, but I will make one observation about your coment regarding an EQ correcting for room anomalies. It will not correct anomalies that are not minimum phase! It can indeed help smooth the direct signal response of the Jubilee, but an EQ can not correct for a complex non-minimum phase superposed signal consisting of both the direct signal and the complex later arriving reflections featuring a modified spectral content.

MAS, MAS, MAS...

I'm going to reread this again. I then, am going to go have my cup of coffee and read it AGAIN. If it is as greek the next time i read it, I'm going to send my lovely little Chloe down your way to kick your hiney!

[]

[mas]

Richard,

Fair enough! I am sure that Chloe and I would have a grand time, as I know that she would understand! []

OK...so what do I have on my plate - I AM going to do the Small Acoustic Space thread - but I also have to address superposition in a reasonable fashion - and also prevent that from spiraling out of control, as well as the crazy lingering notion that you can use EQ as a remedy for room anomalies!

I am rummaging about trying to find the time to assemble some stuff, but in the mean time, save your time and effort playing with an EQ to resolve room anomalies and get a head start by buying yourselves the new 3rd edition of Sound System Engineering and read the new chapter on equalization!

[PrestonTom]

Tom,

"Does option 2 (the K510 in a nice cabinet) sound as good? IOW, what are you giving up (sonically) if you substitute a K510 for a K402."

Likely loosing more control over the directivity at lower frequencies compared to the K402.

FWIW I'll be playing with some K510s to see what I think of them, need to find some adapters to be able to use the same drivers I have been using. I am very curious to see how the Tractrix/CD horns sound. Would have loved to try the K402s but three of them up front is wider then my room.

Regarding the Altec horns a 511 should be relatively close in pattern at the crossover point. The big differences would be the flare and that the 511 isn't a CD horn where the Klipsch horns are. The 511s dispersion narrows the higher in frequency you go which sort of self-EQs the drivers so it doesn't roll off like it does on a CD horn but of course you loose the CD benefits. Altec made numerous CD type horns (called Manta Ray) as well too that could be used. I have a few different MR horns.

Shawn

Shawn, I will be quite interested in your thoughts on the K510s.

BTW, in the the garage somewhere I have a pair of Mantarays (the series 2 model 542, I think, made of aluminum with a fiberglass coating). They are long throw horns with a 1.4in throat and an altec 3-bolt mount. They are narrow dispersion 40 H by 20 V (I beleive). There are pros & cons. They are a CD horn but with that narrow dispersion the sweet spot will be small and there may not be much "room involvement" (which may not be the end the world since the room is dedicated to 2-channel listening). They are also physically deep, about 28 inches. They would require an expensive driver and some equalization to boost the high end (I have become interested in DIY 2-ways, hence the interest in the Jubilee). However, a pro sound guy was going out of business and I got a deal.....

-Tom

[seti]

DHTMAN,

You have to come up for air sometime and let us know what you think as you have been able to spend more time with them : )\

Happy Holidays although Santa came early for you.

[sfogg]

Tom,

I'll let you know how the 510s work out after I get a chance to spend some time with them. Still looking for adapters (both for the 288 and maybe to try a 902 on them) for them as well as checking out 2" exit drivers in case I need to go that way. Been looking at the various B&C and BMS drivers along with potentially the Peavey 44xt. Going by the spec sheets (and the problems with that) the Peavey looks better behaved up top and it is rated for full power into a second order 500hz crossover. It uses a 4" diaphragm and apparently a fairly special phase plug... it is actually a 1.6" exit driver but comes with a 2" adapter right from Peavey.

I have the 90x40 version of the horn I think you are describing the MR94. Pretty large horn, correct? I posted some non-EQ FR plots of the 288-8k on the MR94 on the forum if you were interested in it. It would take a lot of EQ to keep that mostly flat all the way out to 20kHz. I run three way with the 288s now. I also did a plot with the 902 with a 1" to 1.4" adapter on the same horn. It would need much less EQ and still went down plenty deep enough to work with a Jubilee.

Price of Altec 288s is all over the place really. If you stay away from the Alnico units a pair of 288-8k is typically around $400-$500 for the pair. If they need diaphragms (mine did they were very work hardened) they are $100 each. A typically cheaper way to buy them is to look for units sold with dead diaphragms in them. They can be bought much cheaper and then you are assured of having good diaphragms then. I have three extra 288 bodies that I think I bought for $50-$75 each. Be a little more careful if you go this route though as sometimes the units are missing more parts are have other problems. All my empty 288s are missing the rubber magnet covers and I think one or two are missing the mounting studs. And I think one had a couple of screws broken off in the diaphragm mounting holes. All the parts are available from Great Plains to bring them back if needed though. Great Plains also sells new drivers as well.

Shawn

[dhtman]

DHTMAN,

You have to come up for air sometime and let us know what you think as you have been able to spend more time with them : )\

Happy Holidays although Santa came early for you.

[] Seti you are absolutely right about me and Santa! My family are all buzzin' about Christmas and I'm thinking "I don't mind if I get the most boring presents tomorrow, I've got my Jubilees. Socks and handkerchief are cool." Actually I know that Santa is going to leave Joe Zawinul's new CD "Brown Street" in my stocking, so the house will be rockin' from about 8 am!!!!

So, what can I tell you about the Jubs - this has been such an incredible experience. These speakers are so revealing. I was listening to Paul McCartney's Greatest Hits on vinyl last night and the imaging is so precise, the detail so clear, I'm lost for words to describe how good a stereo system can sound. I played Clapton Unplugged and, just as Mike predicted, it's like having the band in the room.

I do have a hum problem to resolve (the bane of high efficiency speakers). I had a scare on Friday evening when I swapped my amps around and lost my right woofer. I agonized for an hour over dinner, praying I hadn't done something stupid and blown something on the Dx38. After dinner, I swapped back to the original amps and all was restored to normal. The insulator on the RCA input of one of the amps had pushed in, stopping the hot connection making, so no sound.

In tracing the source of the hum I swapped my 300bs to the woofers and the single ended transistor amps to the hf. What a difference! It was like listening to a pair of single driver Lowthers - a little too bright, light and soggy bass, and yes I had adjusted the Dx38 output levels for the amp sensitivities.

So the speakers are ruthlessly honest and revealing. They are challenging my beliefs, formed over 35 years of dabbling with audio. I've always thought that it is hard to attribute praise and blame to components in a system unless you have tried lots of combinations. I'm concluding that most conventional speakers lose detail, passive crossovers can introduce massive colorations that mask excellence upstream, the Linkwitz Reilly crossover is the best by far, and I have re-confirmed that horn speakers are the most rrevealing speakers money can buy. The amazing thing about the Jubilees is they have all the strengths of horn speakers and none of the weaknesses - no honk, no colorations, just gorgeous, full fat, rich music.

To enlarge upon my previous paragraph, I have been taking part in the great Lenco experiment, on Audiogon. I have a L75 in a solid ash plinth, with a Fidelity Research FR64s arm and Koetsu Black cartridge. Until now, I have pretty much agreed with the consensus that the Lenco delivers a very punchy sound, very pitch stable, yet lacks image depth. Playing that rig through the Jubilees (including AD and DA conversion in the Dx38 - digital kills soundstage right?) there is incredible imaging and image depth. I think it's due to very flat frequency response and the absence of intermodulation distortion between the drivers. Also, because the Jubs are in the corners of the room, there is a reduction in reflected sound.

The other thing that's striking is that the Jubs are ruthless in revealing arm/cartridge set up errors. I had my VTA set for average 140g pressings from the 70s and 80s and when I tried to play current 180g pressings at the same VTA setting it was so noticable that the treble was rolled off due to the geometry change. I have a Triplanar coming soon which will help with it's VTA on the fly and calibrated VTA adjustment.

I hope that gives you a flavor. Like any good piece, we are hearing new things in our favourite music and enjoying it more. I don't want to sound like a cheesy Stereophile reviewer but there is a totality, a completeness that the Jubs present that I haven't heard before. Earlier in this thread, Roy asked me to PM him my thoughts and to be ruthlessly honest. I told him that the Jubs sounded quite similar to Siegfried Linkwitz's Orions, but with tighter and deeper bass. The Orions need about 65 watts per driver (8 in a stereo pair) whereas the Jubs do nicely on 8 watts per driver, but it's not so surprising the two speaker designs sound similar, given that both use 30dB/octave Linkwitz crossovers and correction to give a flat frequency response.

Did I answer your question?

Happy hollidays to all.

dman [] (in audio nirvana)

[DrWho]

Jubilee comparable to Orion??? Blasphemy! Sorry to hear things aren't turning out very well []

But seriously, what amplification are you running? Maybe I'm not reading it right, but you've got SET on the LF and PP on the HF?

[Parrot]

dhtman,

Would you post a picture or two of your Lenco?

[jwc]

Yes. Can we get photos of the room with the setup in view?

[Coytee]

You guys know the drill... just a couple of big ole ugly black boxes sitting in the corner with them big horns on top

[]

[bodcaw boy]

uh....the full description is "plug ugly"....

roy delgado

[dhtman]

Jubilee comparable to Orion??? Blasphemy! Sorry to hear things aren't turning out very well []

But seriously, what amplification are you running? Maybe I'm not reading it right, but you've got SET on the LF and PP on the HF?

Lol! Linkwitz is one of my audio heroes and his Orions are very good - the least imperfect speakers I had heard until the Jubilees.

My amplification is a transitional set-up - I'm using a pair of Ron Welborne's DRD 300bs on the HF and a pair of Valvet A1s (20 wpc, pp solid state design) on the LF. I also have a pair of Valvet E1s (10 wpc single ended solid state) to try out.

[dhtman]

dhtman,

Would you post a picture or two of your Lenco?

Happy to oblige. It's badged Goldring Lenco GL75, like all UK supplied L75s. I cut the rear, right hand corner off the chassis to allow more choice of arms.

[dhtman]

Yes. Can we get photos of the room with the setup in view?

Here's the room. The Dx38 is on the bottom shelf. The pre is a Supratek Chenin. I'll get the cabling tidied when I'm done swapping amps in and out! The shelves are 4 feet long and the top shelf is 33 inches above the floor.

[Coytee]

It sure can be fun having ~450 watts on the LF!! [] Had an old friend over yesterday, prior to arrival, I told him to bring his favorite cd (brought some Floyd of course).

Just as with the others who've visited, I set the controls and gave him the remote telling him he can listen as soft or loud as he wanted. He could not blow anything up if he went full throttle (as I'd had the volume on Peach set to about 5/8th's)

The people that have been here before, have a clue what a Jubilee is and what it replaces. This poor guy, had NO clue about any part of the history/story.

It was pretty cool literally watching someone sitting there with their mouth agape as they listened. To say he was awestruck is quite the understatement.

Ralph, I hope you're posting more, you should know by now how we all are about pictures and all that nice stuff.

[Coytee]

woo hoo!!

Nice room! Have you tried to angle them out further? I've done that with mine and it helped widen my sweet spot with little (or no) loss of "thwack" as the Dukester likes to say. Tell us... did Roy also send you the headphone adapter for them? You know... you put the adapter on your head and it has a slot on each side that hold the speakers 1" away from your ear? He said it's still in the experimental stage...[]

[dhtman]

Haven't tried angling them out further yet but I will do.

We had family with us on Christmas Day and I was the butt of a load of Spinal Tap jokes. My brother in law even gave me a Stonehenge cake - all wrapped in Christmas paper.

When I was a kid, my dad always got to choose the music that played whilst we ate Christmas dinner. Now it's my turn, so it was Pink Floyd's The Wall! Better than Bing Crosby and Dean Martin, lol.

[Coytee]

Ralph, I've sent you an email, just a heads up