OT: Buy precious stones with a scope

[Colin]

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Before the last 4 girlfriends, and the ex-wife, I had a girlfriend in NH who I helped become a Certified Gemologist and goldsmith. I learned about the quality of gems. I got to see some incredible, and some NOT so incredible, differences between precious stones, diamonds and other colored gemstones.

For the guys buying things other than stereo equipment this Christmas, possibly for sensitive ears that do NOT appreciate the joy of electronics, I would strongly recommend looking at the stone you are considering purchasing under a microscope, NOT just a loop. Good quality goldsmiths, or even jewelry shops with repair benches, will have microscopes to view stones under 10x, or better yet 30X, magnification.

The little 3-10X hand-held loop is insufficient to see the true quality difference of one precious stone rating grade versus another. It can NOT easily show you the difference between vs1 or vs2, vvs1 or vvs2. The microscope can. Like graphing the frequency response of a speaker in your own home, you can clearly see the difference in the quality of the stone you are buying with a microscope. (Flawless grades really are pretty.)

The other piece of advice I would suggest for stone shoppers this Christmas is to get a certificate authenticating the Gemologist quality of the stone when you purchase it. This something that Certified Gemologists have no problems doing, but low end jewelry shops will (although some jewelry chain stores do have their own certificates for just such requests). The certificate authenticates the cut, clarity and color of the stone you are purchasing.

[Coytee]

Not only do I agree with Colin, I'd like to add something else..

If you HAVE seen your diamond under quality magnification, you will be more able to recognize it. a lifetime ago, I worked in a jewlery store and had to always check items coming in for repair to be authentic. One thing I'd do when the customer was there was look at it under the scope. I'd do that to not only help see what was needed, but I'd ALSO use same scope to point out 'flaws' to the customer. There might be a feather in the stone (think piece of ice with a 'craze' crack inside it), there might be a bonafide chip out of it...

By showing it to the customer, when the work was returned, the customer knew that it was their stone. That of course, was only the 2nd reason I did it that way. My primary reason was to show the customer the existing issues so upon return, when the ring was PRISTINE clean, if they THEN saw one of the blemishes, they would NOT think WE did it or swapped their stone out.

Sometimes, when a stone is set in a setting, they will try to use the prongs of the setting to hide some defects. Nothing wrong in doing that, just adjusting the stone if possible so it sits at 2:00 instead of say, 5:00 which might accentuate an inclusion.

If the inclusion was 'hidden' by a prong, you could usually still see it or part of it during a microscope look (no way with a loop). If our jewlers didn't reset the stone EXACTLY as it was with the imperfection hidden, sometimes, someone would think We swapped the stone out.

So, it's all a function of protecting yourself, as well as the vendor protecting themselves.

My wife works at a higher end store here in Knoxville and they use the scope all the time.

[T2K]

I think I understand what you are saying, but let me try to clarify to be sure.

The exterior appearance of a gem can be deceiving, that which lies beneath the surface is of major importance. If there are hidden flaws inside the gem, then the the gem is less desireable?

Although my most valued gems exterior appearance has changed over the last 34 years, I value her more today than ever before.

Choose wisely, as a wise investment will pay back handsomely over time.

Keith

[wuzzzer]

Excellent advice, Colin. I've worked at a high end jewelry store for just about 9 years now. This time of year you see all the ads on TV for Zales and other chain stores that sell 1 carat diamond earrings for $199, diamond bracelets for $99, etc. Its funny how people think they're going to get a quality piece of jewelry for that amount of money. Unfortunately most people don't shop for jewelry very often so they have no idea what to look for in a fine quality piece, nor do they have any idea how much jewelry (especially diamonds) can vary in their quality, beauty and price.

It is important to note that the clarity grade of a diamond is important, but there are several grades of clarity that will only affect the diamond's appearance under magnification and not as much the appearance to the naked eye. Diamonds graded from si1 and higher will only have inclusions that are visible under 10 times magnification. All diamonds that are an i1 or worse will always have at least 1 eye visible inclusion. The si2 grade is a 50/50 grade, some diamonds will and some diamonds won't have eye visible characteristics.

Color is also very important, especially with a white gold or platinum setting. Sometimes you can get away with buying a diamond that has a slight yellow or brown tint if you set it yellow gold. You won't notice the color as much since the metal its set in is yellow. In white gold or platinum it is best to go with a very white diamond (G color or better) so that the silvery color of the metal doesn't clash with any yellow in the diamond.

Most reputable jewelers will also talk about cut or light performance. This isn't the shape of the diamond, rather its the overall proportions and symmetry that the diamond has. Every diamond shape (round, princess, marquise, etc) has certain proportions that are ideal for maximum light reflection. A lot of poorer quality diamonds are cut very deep, resulting in a diamond that loses a significant amount of light out the bottom and side, reducing the amount of light reflected out the top of the diamond.

Oh, and in case anyone's wondering, Christmas time is virtually a madhouse at most jewelry stores. This week I'll be working about 70 hours, and next week will probably be 80+. So please be nice to whoever helps you out at the jewelry store you may visit. Chances are they're putting in some serious overtime as well. []

[Amy]

I didn't realize we had such knowledgable gemstone forum members! Since that's the case, I have a question... []

I'm the furthest thing from a diamond connoisseur as you can get, so keep in mind I know zip...

My grandmother passed away two years ago, and my mother had given me some "diamond-looking" earrings she wore ALL the time, so these had a huge sentimental value for me. It mattered little if they were real or not.

One of the stones had fallen out of of the setting a while ago, so I took it to a jewler to have it reset. The woman who helped me asked what the value was, I said I have no idea, and she asked me if they were real. I said "heck, I don't know, don't you?" She had to go look under a microscope or something...looked for what seemed to be a long time...came back and said "nope, they're not real," and marked them down for a value of $1.

So I said, whatever, they are valuable to me. They put it in a much nicer setting than the original, so I went back a week later to get the other one done in the same setting. A different lady helped me....after looking at it, asked me if I had purchased the earrings there. I said "no, they are fake." And she asked me if it was cubic zirconia. Again I said "heck, I don't know, don't you?" She went to the microscope thingy for a while, then went to some other machine, came back after a while and said "nope, they're not zirconia, I have no idea what they are."

So my question is, what "stone" could look so real that it takes "jewlers" that long to determine what they heck they are (or are not)? Once I figure that out, I will buy nothing else!! []

[Coytee]

Are they diamond "looking", in that they're essentially clear & faceted? If they're large enough, they have an electronic tester they can use to tell you very quickly if they're diamonds or not, takes about 6 seconds. Since they had to scope them, suggests to me the stones are small?

Are they set in gold or silver?

[Amy]

Yeah, they're clear. Don't know what faceted means!

They are fairly large for diamond earrings. If they were real, they'd probably be worth quite a bit. They are set in gold. Not grossly huge like a professional athlete would wear, [] but much bigger than a stud you'd get to pierce your ears.

[Coytee]

lol, you're funny. lol. The facets are the bevels you see on a diamond. Instead of the stone being round like a cue ball, it's got the flat surfaces (facets) that help give it it's look.

You always kinda struck me as the WWF kinda gal!! []

[damonrpayne]

Why do you suggest 30x? Diamonds and such get their ratings at 10x magnification.

[PhilMays]

Wow! We have jewelers here! What a treat!

I have just gone through a long learning process last year. I bought my wife an engagement ring. While shopping I would settle for no less than a VS2 and no less than an I in clarity. I wanted to get her a Princess (Meri is a Jewish American Princess therefore the princess cut) cut ring in the 1.25 to 1.5 carrat range.

We looked for months and months and I wanted to keep the price in the 15K range. We went on a cruise last Christmas and while in St. Thomas we went through the many jewelery stores there. In one store, Meri found a 1.51 carrat, D color, SI2 clarity, round brilliant diamond and fell in love. It had a GIA cert, but I was still very nervious. I don't know what to look for under a scope, etc. Anyway, she loved it and I bought it for her. They mounted it in a cheap setting so we could wear it out and back into the country, no taxes!!!!

I had it appraised here and was VERY pleased with my purchase. I had it set in a very nice Christopher setting and people rant and rave about her ring.

My point is, don't go with just clarity. I found the color and cut just as important, if not a little more so.

Just my 2 cents and I am no jeweler but know how the ring sparkles in the light.

[Amy]

lol, you're funny. lol. The facets are the bevels you see on a diamond. Instead of the stone being round like a cue ball, it's got the flat surfaces (facets) that help give it it's look.

You always kinda struck me as the WWF kinda gal!! []

Hey, I warned you I didn't know zip about gems! []

Yes, it is faceted... I will try to get a pic of them. I trust both jewlers knew what they were saying when they said they didn't have any monetary value, but I'm just wondering what the heck they are made of that fooled them both just by looking at them. I think that's cool!

WWF??

[oldtimer]

"WWF?"

Wildly Wicked Female, no really it's World Wildlife Fund.

[wuzzzer]

Amy,

There are several diamond simulants that have been used over the years, cubic zirconia being only one of them. Some other ones used are white sapphire, YAG (ytrium-aluminum garnet), white spinel, white zircon. Some diamond simulants are very easy to tell from a real diamond. Some are much harder. For instance, moissanite (a lab-created gemstone) is probably the closest to diamond in its appearance. We have testers at work that separate a diamond from either moissanite or other gemstone. There isn't any way that your earrings would be moissanite since that created stone has only been on the market for a few years.

Unless they did a test with a refractometer and other gemological equipment, I don't see how they could have told you they for sure weren't cubic zirconia. It more than likely is one of the above mentioned diamond simulants.

[wuzzzer]

While shopping I would settle for no less than a VS2 and no less than an I in clarity. I wanted to get her a Princess (Meri is a Jewish American Princess therefore the princess cut) cut ring in the 1.25 to 1.5 carrat range.

We looked for months and months and I wanted to keep the price in the 15K range. We went on a cruise last Christmas and while in St. Thomas we went through the many jewelery stores there. In one store, Meri found a 1.51 carrat, D color, SI2 clarity, round brilliant diamond and fell in love. It had a GIA cert, but I was still very nervious.

GIA is one of the most reputable grading facilities in the world. You can be very comfortable with your purchase.

Just to clear things up, you mention that you wouldn't settle for less than a VS2 but you ended up buying an SI2? I think you made a good choice. My wife's diamond is a D color, SI2 clarity, AGS 0 (Ideal) cut. It looks incredible. I can only imagine that your wife's diamond is just as beautiful!

[oldtimer]

Just don't buy this stuff if you are not as comfortable with it as you are with audio gear, unless you have an inside friend in the business. They are just rocks produced naturally on the planet. They wont play vinyl or cd's, amplify, give you 1080p, or anything else that really matters. They won't make a dog look better, or a hottie look hotter. Jewels are the greatest scam in history.

[wuzzzer]

Just don't buy this stuff if you are not as comfortable with it as you are with audio gear, unless you have an inside friend in the business. They are just rocks produced naturally on the planet. They wont play vinyl or cd's, amplify, give you 1080p, or anything else that really matters. They won't make a dog look better, or a hottie look hotter. Jewels are the greatest scam in history.

Don't forget about the diamonds in the 60th anniversary Klipschorns. []

[oldtimer]

Window dressing my friend, window dressing.

[PhilMays]

While shopping I would settle for no less than a VS2 and no less than an I in clarity. I wanted to get her a Princess (Meri is a Jewish American Princess therefore the princess cut) cut ring in the 1.25 to 1.5 carrat range.

We looked for months and months and I wanted to keep the price in the 15K range. We went on a cruise last Christmas and while in St. Thomas we went through the many jewelery stores there. In one store, Meri found a 1.51 carrat, D color, SI2 clarity, round brilliant diamond and fell in love. It had a GIA cert, but I was still very nervious.

GIA is one of the most reputable grading facilities in the world. You can be very comfortable with your purchase.

Just to clear things up, you mention that you wouldn't settle for less than a VS2 but you ended up buying an SI2? I think you made a good choice. My wife's diamond is a D color, SI2 clarity, AGS 0 (Ideal) cut. It looks incredible. I can only imagine that your wife's diamond is just as beautiful!

Yea Mark, that's what I meant. I was getting caught up on clarity and not paying attention to cut and color. Those two really override the clarity , at least in the SI range. Since then, I have bought her a three diamond D color necklace, and 1 carrat F color earings, that she trew away on accident[:'(]

[PhilMays]

As a matter of fact, this morning I reminded her that I could have not bought her those earings and bought myself a used set of Khorns instead, and I wouldn't have thrown those away by accident.

One can't sleep with khorns though. []

[Jay481985]

Amy,

There are several diamond simulants that have been used over the years, cubic zirconia being only one of them. Some other ones used are white sapphire, YAG (ytrium-aluminum garnet), white spinel, white zircon. Some diamond simulants are very easy to tell from a real diamond. Some are much harder. For instance, moissanite (a lab-created gemstone) is probably the closest to diamond in its appearance. We have testers at work that separate a diamond from either moissanite or other gemstone. There isn't any way that your earrings would be moissanite since that created stone has only been on the market for a few years.

Unless they did a test with a refractometer and other gemological equipment, I don't see how they could have told you they for sure weren't cubic zirconia. It more than likely is one of the above mentioned diamond simulants.

I've worked with moissanite for three years even though its more of a science application. Its nice stuff though mine was black not crystal clear.